Two Kinds of Salvation

[Ben Avraham]

Two Kinds of Salvation.

1. Personal salvation and;

2. Universal salvation.

Only universal salvation is free; personal salvation is as expensive as the kind of transgression committed against the Law.

Universal salvation is the one promised to Noah through the Noahide Covenant which the Lord established with all Mankind. Soon after the Flood, the Lord promised Noah never to allow another catastrophe the size of the Flood as all living beings, except for Noah's family, had suffered universal destruction. What about if Mankind turned again as evil as at the time of Noah? The Lord had to raise a new people from the loins of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob as the pledge or assurance to His promise of universal salvation for Mankind. Israel had risen. Now, as long as Israel remained as a People before the Lord forever, the earth would remain seed-time and harvest and cold and heat, and summer and winter, and day and night would not cease. In other words, as long as the natural laws functioned properly, Mankind was saved; freely saved. (Gen. 8:21,22)

Prophet Jeremiah must have read the above text and connected the Lord's pledge with the permanence of Israel as a People before the Lord forever as long as the natural laws functioned properly, thus, Israel would guarantee the Lord's promise of universal salvation of Mankind. (Jeremiah 31:35-37)

Reading the Christian NT the other day, I came about John 4:22 and I was reminded that Jesus must have read both texts above; the one of Genesis and that of Jeremiah and concluded that indeed salvation comes from the Jews. From the Jews, he said, and not from one among the Jews.

Now, for personal salvation, the bill would have to be paid according to the transgression of the Law; the law of cause and effect; some times as expensive as the loss of life itself. This kind of salvation is so serious that, as Jesus himself said, if we come to the Temple to plead for salvation and we are reminded that some one has an issue with us, we must leave all behind and go set things right with our neighbor and only then return to the altar to plead for salvation. (Mat. 5:23,24)

 

[ukok102nak]

Two Kinds of Salvation.

1. Personal salvation and;

2. Universal salvation.

Only universal salvation is free; personal salvation is as expensive as the kind of transgression committed against the Law.

Universal salvation is the one promised to Noah through the Noahide Covenant which the Lord established with all Mankind. Soon after the Flood, the Lord promised Noah never to allow another catastrophe the size of the Flood as all living beings, except for Noah's family, had suffered universal destruction. What about if Mankind turned again as evil as at the time of Noah? The Lord had to raise a new people from the loins of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob as the pledge or assurance to His promise of universal salvation for Mankind. Israel had risen. Now, as long as Israel remained as a People before the Lord forever, the earth would remain seed-time and harvest and cold and heat, and summer and winter, and day and night would not cease. In other words, as long as the natural laws functioned properly, Mankind was saved; freely saved. (Gen. 8:21,22)

Prophet Jeremiah must have read the above text and connected the Lord's pledge with the permanence of Israel as a People before the Lord forever as long as the natural laws functioned properly, thus, Israel would guarantee the Lord's promise of universal salvation of Mankind. (Jeremiah 31:35-37)

Reading the Christian NT the other day, I came about John 4:22 and I was reminded that Jesus must have read both texts above; the one of Genesis and that of Jeremiah and concluded that indeed salvation comes from the Jews. From the Jews, he said, and not from one among the Jews.

Now, for personal salvation, the bill would have to be paid according to the transgression of the Law; the law of cause and effect; some times as expensive as the loss of life itself. This kind of salvation is so serious that, as Jesus himself said, if we come to the Temple to plead for salvation and we are reminded that some one has an issue with us, we must leave all behind and go set things right with our neighbor and only then return to the altar to plead for salvation. (Mat. 5:23,24)

~;> this differ from our perspective thoughts
as they say
Freely you received, so freely give.
if we may say so

for when it comes unto salvation in this reality
from the old testamen during those time of old some people were been taught a literally physical temporal materialistic salvation
but
when it comes to the new testament the spiritual salvation is more defined rather than the teachings in the old testament

. ... this is from what we observed
from those people in the past up to this present time ... .

by the way
there no such thing as once save always save
as what some people thought that they could have a personal relationship to god interpreted from the bible

this verses strictly contradict the personal interpretation of some people about having a personal relationship to god
and
by having a personal relationship to god then someone will be
save and once save is always
is only
a system of biblical interpretation taught by man
that we must not cling to
so as it is written
:read:
John 13:34
A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also must love one another.

John 15:12
"This is my commandment, that you love one another, even as I have loved you.
13 Greater love has no one than this, that someone lay down his life for his friends.

John 14:15
If you love me, you will keep my commandments.

John 15:9
Even as the Father has loved me, I also have loved you. Remain in my love.
10 If you keep my commandments, you will remain in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and remain in his love.

1 John 4:20
If a man says, "I love God," and hates his brother, he is a liar; for he who does not love his brother whom he has seen, cannot love God whom he has not seen.
21 This commandment we have from him, that he who loves God should also love his brother.

thats why
a personal interpretation of some people about having a personal relationship to god
and
by having a personal relationship to god then someone will be
save and once save is always
is only
a system of biblical interpretation taught by man
that we must not cling to
becaused someone must have love thats is not somekind of love only for itself
but a love for their fellow humans before someone could have that love from god
and
if it is possible we humans must atleast love our surroundings also
if we may say so


:ty:




godbless
unto all always

 

[Tumah]

Judging by your OP, I'm pretty sure there's a more accurate "Religion" label you can use.

 

[savagewind]

Judging by your OP, I'm pretty sure there's a more accurate "Religion" label you can use.

I wonder if you realize how very mean and unfriendly that sounds? I think you do not CARE, but do you KNOW?

 

[Tumah]

I wonder if you realize how very mean and unfriendly that sounds? I think you do not CARE, but do you KNOW?

I'm not a fan of deception.

 

[ukok102nak]

I wonder if you realize how very mean and unfriendly that sounds? I think you do not CARE, but do you KNOW?

~;> probably you want to say
we are, pretty sure that there's no more accurate "word" label you can use
than the very written words of god itself
so that no one shall be deceived again by means of the deception that happends
along long time ago
unto those people before
if we may say so


:ty:




godbless
unto all always

 

[Ben Avraham]

~;> probably you want to say
we are, pretty sure that there's no more accurate "word" label you can use
than the very written words of god itself
so that no one shall be deceived again by means of the deception that happends
along long time ago
unto those people before
if we may say so


:ty:




godbless
unto all always

 

[Ben Avraham]

What I have given you is from the Word of God itself. When Jesus was around every time he referred to the Word of God, he had the Tanach
in mind. That's the Word of God. The NT, Jesus never even dreamed it would ever rise. So, that's the word of Paul written by Hellenists former
disciples of Paul. As the Nephilim are concerned, Ezra took from that Babylonian legend to explain his struggle to deal with hitbolelut which
is about the mix-marriages of the sons of God according to Exodus 4:22,23, then the Jews who had returned from exile in Babylon married with
Gentile women in Babylon. Hence, the children of God married with the daughters of man. (Gen. 6:1,2)

 

[ukok102nak]

What I have given you is from the Word of God itself. When Jesus was around every time he referred to the Word of God, he had the Tanach
in mind. That's the Word of God. The NT, Jesus never even dreamed it would ever rise. So, that's the word of Paul written by Hellenists former
disciples of Paul. As the Nephilim are concerned, Ezra took from that Babylonian legend to explain his struggle to deal with hitbolelut which
is about the mix-marriages of the sons of God according to Exodus 4:22,23, then the Jews who had returned from exile in Babylon married with
Gentile women in Babylon. Hence, the children of God married with the daughters of man. (Gen. 6:1,2)

~;> that is accordin unto your interpretation
coz the verses in
Genesis6 tells somethin different from what you said
that
As the Nephilim are concerned, Ezra took from that Babylonian legend to explain his struggle to deal with hitbolelut which
is about the mix-marriages of the sons of God according to Exodus 4:22,23, then the Jews who had returned from exile in Babylon married with
Gentile women in Babylon.
COZ IT HAPPENEDS TO BE THAT
the children of God married with the daughters of man started
DURING THE TIME OF NOAH
as it is written
:read:
Genesis6
1 And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them,
2 that the sons of G-d saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives, whomsoever they chose.
3 And HaShem said: 'My spirit shall not abide in man for ever, for that he also is flesh; therefore shall his days be a hundred and twenty years.'
4 The Nephilim were in the earth in those days, and also after that, when the sons of G-d came in unto the daughters of men, and they bore children to them; the same were the mighty men that were of old, the men of renown.
5 And HaShem saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
6 And it repented HaShem that He had made man on the earth, and it grieved Him at His heart.
7 And HaShem said: 'I will blot out man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and creeping thing, and fowl of the air; for it repenteth Me that I have made them.'
8 But Noah found grace in the eyes of HaShem.
9 These are the generations of Noah. Noah was in his generations a man righteous and wholehearted; Noah walked with G-d.

also
try to figure this out
when did the jews during the time of jesus
thought that the gentiles can also have a salvation
through the apostles of the gentiles
with the words of god given unto him by christ jesus
the only begotten son of god
our lord and saviour
when the time comes ... . . .

. ... just for a thought
if we may say so ... .


:ty:




godbless
unto all always

 

[ukok102nak]

~;> by the way
is there anyone here
who are familiar about this writtings
as it is written
:read:
The Seven Sleepers (Arabic: اصحاب الکھف aṣḥāb al kahf, "companions of the cave") of Ephesus are legendary people in a story of a group of youths who hide inside a cave outside the city of Ephesus around 250 AD, to escape a persecution. The king forced all his kingdom to worship idols and whoever did not would be killed. These men escaped as their faith in God (their belief varies by regional origin) was strong, and they refused to worship idols. The story is one of the many examples of the legend about a man who falls asleep and years after wakes up to find the world changed.

Another version is that Decius ordered them imprisoned in a closed cave to die there as punishment for being Christians. Having fallen asleep inside the cave, they purportedly awoke approximately 180 years later during the reign of Theodosius II, following which they were reportedly seen by the people of the now-Christian city before dying.

The earliest version of this story comes from the Syrian bishop Jacob of Sarug (c. 450–521), which is itself derived from an earlier Greek source, now lost.[1] An outline of this tale appears in Gregory of Tours (b. 538, d. 594), and in Paul the Deacon's (b. 720, d. 799) History of the Lombards. The best-known Western version of the story appears in Jacobus de Voragine's Golden Legend.

The Roman Martyrology mentions the Seven Sleepers of Ephesus under the date of 27 July (June according to Vatican II calendar), as follows: "Commemoration of the seven Holy Sleepers of Ephesus, who, it is recounted, after undergoing martyrdom, rest in peace, awaiting the day of resurrection."[2] The Byzantine Calendar commemorates them with feasts on 4 August and 22 October.

The story has its highest prominence, however, in the Muslim world; it is told in the Qur'an (Surah 18, verse 9–26). The Quranic rendering of this story does not state exactly the number of sleepers Surah 18, verse 22. It also gives the number of years that they slept as 300 solar years (equivalent to 309 lunar years). Unlike the Christian story, the Islamic version includes mention of a dog who accompanied the youths into the cave, and was also asleep, but when people passed by the cave it looked as if the dog was just keeping watch at the entrance, making them afraid of seeing what is in the cave once they saw the dog. In Islam, these youths are referred to as "The People of the Cave".

. ... just askin
if we may say so ... .

and another thing
we find this writtings corroborates
with the said statement above
so as it is written
:read:

Surah 18, verse:

7. Verily! We have made that which is on earth as an adornment for it, in order that We may test them (mankind) as to which of them are best in deeds.

8. And verily! We shall make all that is on it (the earth) a bare dry soil.

9. Do you think that the people of the Cave and the Inscription were a wonder among Our Signs?

10. When the young men fled for refuge to the Cave, they said: "Our Lord! Bestow on us mercy from Yourself, and facilitate for us our affair in the right way!"

11. Therefore We covered up their hearing in the Cave for a number of years.

12. Then We woke them up, that We might test which of the two parties was best at calculating the time period that they had tarried.

13. We narrate unto you their story with truth: Truly! They were young men who believed in their Lord, and We increased them in guidance.

14. And We made their hearts firm and strong when they stood up and said: "Our Lord is the Lord of the heavens and the earth, never shall we call upon any deity other than Him; if we did, we should indeed have uttered an enormity in disbelief.

15. "These our people have taken for worship deities other than God. Why do they not bring for them a clear authority? And who does more wrong than he who invents a lie against God?

16. (The young men said to one another): "And when you withdraw from them, and that which they worship, except God, then seek refuge in the Cave, your Lord will open a way for you from His Mercy and will make easy for you your affair (i.e. will give you what you will need of provision, dwelling, etc.)."

17. And you might have seen the sun, when it rose, declining to the right from their Cave, and when it set, turning away from them to the left, while they lay in the midst of the Cave. That is of the signs of God. He whom God guides, is rightly guided; but he whom He sends astray, for him you will find no friend to lead him.

18. And you would have thought them awake, while they were asleep. And We turned them on their right and on their left sides, and their dog stretching forth his two forelegs at the entrance. Had you looked at them, you would certainly have turned back from them in flight, and would certainly have been filled with awe of them.

19. Likewise, We awakened them that they might question one another. A speaker from among them said: "How long have you stayed?" They said: "We have stayed a day or part of a day." They said: "Your Lord knows best how long you have stayed. So send one of you with this silver coin of yours to the town, and let him find out which is the good lawful food, and bring some of that to you. And let him be careful and let no man know of you.

20. "For if they come to know of you, they will stone you or turn you back to their religion, and in that case you will never be successful."

21. And thus We made their case known to the people, that they might know that the Promise of God is true, and that there can be no doubt about the Hour. (Remember) when they (the people of the city) disputed among themselves about their case, they said: "Construct a building over them, their Lord knows best about them," (then) those who won their point said (most probably the disbelievers): "We verily shall build a place of worship over them."

22. (Some) say they were three, the dog being the fourth among them; (others) say they were five, the dog being the sixth, guessing at the unseen; (yet others) say they were seven, the dog being the eighth. Say (O Muhammad ): "My Lord knows best their number; none knows them but a few." So debate not (about their number, etc.) except with the clear proof (which We have revealed to you). And consult not any of them (people of the Scripture, Jews and Christians) about (the affair of) the people of the Cave.

23. And never say of anything, "I shall do such and such thing tomorrow."

24. Except, "If God wills!" And remember your Lord when you forget and say: "It may be that my Lord guides me unto a nearer way of truth than this."

25. And they stayed in their Cave three hundred (solar) years, and add nine (for lunar years).

26. Say: "God knows best how long they stayed. With Him is the secrets of the heavens and the earth. How clearly He sees and hears! They have no protector other than Him, and He makes none to share in His Decision and His Rule."


:ty:





godbless
unto all always

 

[Ben Avraham]

~;> that is accordin unto your interpretation
coz the verses in
Genesis6 tells somethin different from what you said
that
As the Nephilim are concerned, Ezra took from that Babylonian legend to explain his struggle to deal with hitbolelut which
is about the mix-marriages of the sons of God according to Exodus 4:22,23, then the Jews who had returned from exile in Babylon married with
Gentile women in Babylon.
COZ IT HAPPENEDS TO BE THAT
the children of God married with the daughters of man started

DURING THE TIME OF NOAH
as it is written
:read:
Genesis6
1 And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters
were born unto them,

2 that the sons of G-d saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives, whomsoever they chose.
3 And HaShem said: 'My spirit shall not abide in man for ever, for that he also is flesh; therefore shall his days be a hundred and twenty years.'
4 The Nephilim were in the earth in those days, and also after that, when the sons of G-d came in unto the daughters of men, and they bore children to them; the same were the mighty men
that were of old, the men of renown.
5 And HaShem saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
6 And it repented HaShem that He had made man on the earth, and it grieved Him at His heart.
7 And HaShem said: 'I will blot out man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and creeping thing, and fowl of the air; for it repenteth Me that I have made them.'

8 But Noah found grace in the eyes of HaShem.
9 These are the generations of Noah. Noah was in his generations a man righteous and wholehearted; Noah walked with G-d.

also
try to figure this out

when did the jews during the time of jesus
thought that the gentiles can also have a salvation
through the apostles of the gentiles
with the words of god given unto him by christ jesus
the only begotten son of god
our lord and saviour

when the time comes ... . . .

. ... just for a thought
if we may say so ... .

The whole problem is that you are giving a Christian interpretation to the text about the
Nephilim and I am giving a Jewish one. Remember through that I am using the Word of God aka the Tanach and you are using the word of Paul aka the NT. When Jesus was here, every time he referred to the Word of God, he had the Tanach in mind. The NT, he never even dreamed it would ever rise.

 

[ukok102nak]

~;> your wrong
coz we (my brethren and my fellows) actually given both the words of god
from both writtings
and one thing that makes the problem here is
you mistook what paul says
coz he never proclaimed such things that those words of salvation unto the gentiles are just the words of man
and not by god
as it is written
:read:
Galatians 1:8
But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than that which we have preached to you, let him be accursed.
9 As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel to you than that you have received, let him be accursed.
10 For do I now persuade men, or God? or do I seek to please men? for if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ.
11 But I certify you, brothers, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.
12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.

as they say
so as it is written
:read:
Acts 14:15
And saying, Sirs, why do you these things? We also are men of like passions with you, and preach to you that you should turn from these vanities to the living God, which made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and all things that are therein:
16 Who in times past suffered all nations to walk in their own ways.
17 Nevertheless he left not himself without witness, in that he did good, and gave us rain from heaven, and fruitful seasons, filling our hearts with food and gladness.
18 And with these sayings scarce restrained they the people, that they had not done sacrifice to them.

and again your wrong
for you only assuming too much that
he never even dreamed it would ever rise
becaused
you dont seems to know where to find the words of god
in the very written scripture in NT
AND THATS THE WHOLE PROBLEM
YOU SHOULD SOLVE FIRST
thats why
you should also
search for it
with all your heart
and
with all your soul
as it is written
:read:
Matthew 24:35
Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.

as what we've said earlier
try to figure this out
when did the jews during the time of jesus
thought that the gentiles can also have a salvation
through the apostles of the gentiles
with the words of god given unto him by christ jesus
the only begotten son of god
our lord and saviour
when the time comes ... . . .


:ty:




godbless
unto all always

The whole problem is that you are giving a Christian interpretation to the text about the
Nephilim and I am giving a Jewish one. Remember through that I am using the Word of God aka the Tanach and you are using the word of Paul aka the NT. When Jesus was here, every time he referred to the Word of God, he had the Tanach in mind. The NT, he never even dreamed it would ever rise.

 

[Scuba Pete]

every time he referred to the Word of God, he had the Tanach
in mind. That's the Word of God.

Yah, I disagree with this. Jesus is the Word. Scriptures are just a journal of man looking for God and his identity.

Whenever I seeing dueling scriptures I expect to see a lot of legalism and very little love. You didn't disappoint me.

 

[Ben Avraham]

Yah, I disagree with this. Jesus is the Word. Scriptures are just a journal of man looking for God and his identity.

Whenever I seeing dueling scriptures I expect to see a lot of legalism and very little love. You didn't disappoint me.

Well, I disagree with you too because, the Word of God cannot be dead as Jesus has been dead for about 2000 years by now.

 

[ukok102nak]

~;> where is the physical body
so that we may not disagree unto you
coz we are disagreeing unto one interpretation of yours about the word of god that is dead
without knowing first
how the word of god
took the form of a human being

. ... just askin
if we may say so ... .


:ty:




godbless
unto all always

Well, I disagree with you too because, the Word of God cannot be dead as Jesus has been dead for about 2000 years by now.

 

[savagewind]

Well, I disagree with you too because, the Word of God cannot be dead as Jesus has been dead for about 2000 years by now.

Christians believe in a resurrected Christ Jesus. It is written that he ascended to Heaven, but even before that he was given all authority on Earth and in Heaven. Some Christians don't believe he was given the authority to speak, but I do. It is not like hearing words like here on Earth.
It is written that we should ask for more wisdom. Some people search the scriptures for it. They search the scriptures for meaning. I ask for it.

I asked for an answer to this: Why can't many people hear?

The answer: Trust in יְ֭הוָה with all the heart and on understanding do not lean. Proverbs 3:5 Psalms 37:5

I think that leaning on anything to believe in it shuts down a person's ability to hear.

Another answer I got. The Word will not speak around an idol. To believe in something that isn't true to lean on it creates an idol between you and The Word. To hear you MUST get rid of all your idols.

 

[Scuba Pete]

the Word of God cannot be dead as Jesus has been dead for about 2000 years by now

Jesus is not dead and his Spirit lives inside of me.

 

[savagewind]

Jesus is not dead and his Spirit lives inside of me.

There is an idol right there. "Lives" is something Earth things do. Jesus is a heavenly spirit.

Look at the definition of life. - the existence of an individual human

Individual and single are linked. A single god is not single anymore if that god lives in all believers.

Or maybe haha he lives only in you?

 

[savagewind]

Why not leave all your idols behind for a moment and ASK God what idol means.

 

[rusra02]

The idea of universal salvation, that everyone will be saved and enjoy eternal life, does not find support in sacred Scripture. Genesis 9:11 simply records; "Yes, I establish my covenant with you: Never again will all flesh be destroyed by the waters of a flood, and never again will a flood bring the earth to ruin." This is not a promise that no one will be destroyed, but simply that a global Deluge would not reoccur. Jesus Christ himself warned; "Go in through the narrow gate, because broad is the gate and spacious is the road leading off into destruction, and many are going in through it; whereas narrow is the gate and cramped the road leading off into life, and few are finding it." (Matthew 7:13,14)