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Two Forward commentaries on Sheikh Jarrah

Discussion in 'Middle Eastern Politics' started by Jayhawker Soule, May 12, 2021.

  1. Jayhawker Soule

    Jayhawker Soule <yawn> ignore </yawn>
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    What I appreciate about the latter is the clarity of the following ...

    As any number of pro-Israel activists and government spokespeople will tell you, the Sheikh Jarrah case is a “complicated” matter. But complexity does not necessarily give rise to moral ambiguity.​

    The Israeli laws that allow for the Jewish “reclamation” of Palestinian land in East Jerusalem is a one-way street. While Jews can reclaim land based on pre-1948 deeds, Palestinians cannot make claims on land their families owned in West Jerusalem before Israel’s independence. On top of that, the property of Palestinian refugees from the 1948 war was formally expropriated in 1950.

    In brief, Palestinians in Sheikh Jarrah are being targeted with an unjust and discriminatory legal regime that denies Palestinians the right to make the same claims as Jews. Jerusalem municipal officials, not tied down by unconvincing Foreign Ministry talking points about a simple “real estate dispute,” have said as much in remarkably candid statements to the international press.

    See, also, Wikipedia: Sheikh Jarrah.
     
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  2. Revoltingest

    Revoltingest I have the kavorka
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    But this must be a just policy.
    Ameristan supports it with massive financial, political, & military aid.
    In a country ruled exclusively by Christians, we know what's right.
     
  3. rosends

    rosends Well-Known Member

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  4. sun rise

    sun rise "This is the Hour of God"
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    I'm reminded of Shakespeare's Merchant of Venice because not only is the one-sided law unjust but the fanatic right wing in Israel has taken Shylock's position. It won't end well and rivers of blood will flow:

    ... “That, in the course of justice, none of us / Should see salvation” (IV.1.197-8). We’re all sinners, in other words, redeemed only by God’s mercy -- so isn’t it our duty to show mercy and forgiveness to our fellow men?

    ...Shylock’s response:

    “My deeds upon my head! I crave the law,
     
  5. Brickjectivity

    Brickjectivity Veteran Member
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    There are already sanctions, however the sanctions have had poor success in ending the conflict. If Israel applies pressure by threatening property maybe some kind of treaty will start to sound interesting to the people who are about to lose property. Maybe they will start to look at the here and now instead of the long past and say Ok lets draw some permanent borders.

    This side of the ocean.
     
  6. rosends

    rosends Well-Known Member

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    Actually, Shylock's position was sound. It was only because a woman, pretending to be a lawyer and therefore with no standing to make any ruling, twisted a law which had been ignored, and of which apparently the local government was unaware, to exploit the situation and victimize Shylock.

    So, yeah, I guess this is just like that.
     
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  7. Debater Slayer

    Debater Slayer Veteran Member
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    The fanatic apologetics for Israel's crimes continues.

    I'm starting to believe Israel may well have a problem with political and religious extremism that is nearly on par with its Arab neighbors. When people find it acceptable to justify blatant illegal occupation and state-sanctioned discrimination, something is deeply wrong within a country that breeds such a mentality.
     
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  8. Harel13

    Harel13 Am Yisrael Chai
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    It's almost as though we should ignore reality and claim that pre-1967 or even pre-1948 everything was peachy in the Land of Israel between Jews and Arabs. That would be a giant lie, of course.
     
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  9. Harel13

    Harel13 Am Yisrael Chai
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    Perhaps you could clarify why enemies of the State of Israel deserve the same rights as its citizens?
     
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  10. rosends

    rosends Well-Known Member

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    It is sad when people try to deny facts and law and prefer to call names and speculate. Something is wrong with any system that encourages and celebrates such ignorance. I hope you find the strength to rise above and join reality. Best of luck.
     
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  11. Godobeyer

    Godobeyer the word "Islam" means "submission" to God
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    This for sure a racism laws and unjustice laws .how could court or scholars made this laws in "civil" country !
    Me wonder, why some people deny Israel is not include racism laws and unjustice actions toward Arabs and Muslims , what needed more proofs ?
    Me wonder , what person heart could take others's home ? by name of religion and native nation of land!
    Me worry how people suffered by racism by Nazi,be a racism toward other nation which host them in WW2 .
     
  12. sun rise

    sun rise "This is the Hour of God"
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    You're right that the hatred goes way back. The British did not help by promising both Muslims and Jews incompatible promises. And anti-Jewish riots were all too reminiscent of the pogroms in the Pale that my parents fled.

    And the partition that led to Israel could have been peaceful except for the invasion by Muslim countries.

    That made me a supporter of Israel through 1973 outside of the Anglo/French/Israeli invasion of Egypt.

    But over time since 1973 outside of the Oslo Accords and Israelis leaving Gaza, Israel more and more has had a policy of gradually taking over the East Bank along with more and more Israelis wanting to drive Muslims out of that region (as well as from Israel proper).

    Now we have a condition where Hamas and Netanyahu both see a value in an other round of war that was started partly by the provocation of shutting down a Muslim gathering place in Jerusalem for no reason and exacerbated by the discriminatory law that allows Jews to claim land where they once lived but does not allow Muslims to do the same thing.

    If and when the day comes that Israel stops the land grabs in the East Bank, allows Muslims in the Knesset into the government on some basis and starts working on how to get out of the hole they're in - on that day I'll once again be a supporter of Israel.

    And the same goes on the other side - if there's a Muslim Gandhi who renounces violence in pursuit of equal rights, I'll lend my support to that effort.
     
  13. Harel13

    Harel13 Am Yisrael Chai
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    #13 Harel13, May 12, 2021
    Last edited: May 12, 2021
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  14. Jayhawker Soule

    Jayhawker Soule <yawn> ignore </yawn>
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    Palestinians fear loss of family homes as evictions loom.

    Your "enemies of the state," much like Trumps "enemies of the people," is pathetic calumny at best.
     
  15. Harel13

    Harel13 Am Yisrael Chai
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    Are you unable to debate politics without falling back on irrelevant adjectives?
    And here I thought you were the cold, calculating, logical, enlightened leftist. Oh look, here I'm falling on irrelevant adjectives as well.

    To the issue at hand:
    Is the 19th century deed pathetic calumny as well? Are you able to contest it at court? Then have at it, instead of continuously pushing forward touchy-feely articles.
     
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  16. Debater Slayer

    Debater Slayer Veteran Member
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    Sure, let's talk about facts and law:

    Stop evictions in East Jerusalem neighbourhood immediately, UN rights office urges Israel

    Israel is committing the crime of apartheid, rights group says

    Your objection to criticism of Israel and Jewish extremism is no different from Islamists' throwing out the term "Islamophobia" to dismiss legitimate criticism of their beliefs. It is quite eye-opening that two sides so strongly opposed in their interests are simultaneously so similar in their MO.
     
  17. rosends

    rosends Well-Known Member

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    Ah, claims by "rights groups" that don't address the actual legal issues involved but are mired in the incorrect labelling of the disputed territory. So a lot of "urging". Fascinating.
     
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  18. Debater Slayer

    Debater Slayer Veteran Member
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    One mistake you are making here is citing facts to counter pro-Israel arguments largely rooted in political and religious tribalism as well as rigid dogma. I suspect many of those on the Jewish and Muslim camps who believe they have a divine right to the "Holy Land" don't care about reason or facts nearly as much as they do advancing their politically and religiously extremist narrative. As long as this remains the case both in Israel and the Arab world, I see no end in sight to this unfortunate conflict.
     
    #18 Debater Slayer, May 12, 2021
    Last edited: May 12, 2021
  19. Debater Slayer

    Debater Slayer Veteran Member
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    Okay, perhaps a joint statement from multiple EU countries would be better to you than statements from rights groups?

    European powers call on Israel to halt settlement expansion | DW | 06.05.2021

    One of the "actual legal issues" is that Israel continues to build illegal settlements despite international calls to cease and desist.
     
  20. rosends

    rosends Well-Known Member

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    except that the European label is likewise incorrect and Jersualem is not a settlement. But feel free to hitch yourself to that wagon.
     
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