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Featured Two approaches towards reforming Islam: the Bahai Faith and Ahmadiyya Islam.

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by LuisDantas, Aug 19, 2018.

  1. adrian009

    adrian009 Veteran Member
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    That’s quite a find! It certainly doesn’t support your view that the Baha’i Faith is dying with such a rapidly expanding budget. I’m off to work and will talk again soon. Where do you think all that money being spent on ‘Charity’ is going?
     
  2. Vinayaka

    Vinayaka devotee
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    Staffing, building maintenance, donations to pioneers, utilities, ... you know, the basics that all 'charities' need to cover. It costs a lot of money to run a 'charity'.
     
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  3. LuisDantas

    LuisDantas Aura of atheification
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    You are of course entitled to those ideas of your own, but please allow me to point out that the later half of the 19th century was quite efervescent when it comes to creeds, faiths and religions.

    It was the time of the rise of spiritualism, of orientalism, of H.P. Blavastsky and Allan Kardec and the Golden Dawn.

    After many a century of almost automatic and often shallow, rote adherence towards the traditional religions of the land and of one's immediate ancestors, the advancement of transport and communication made a sudden and often unconfortable awareness of the diversity of creeds possible. Many of those creeds were not well equipped to deal with the awareness of the diversity of beliefs, and the direct result was an unprecedented receptiveness towards new ideas that offered ways for addressing the challenge.

    The way I see it, Persia was no exception. It stands to reason that word of far away lands and their exotic beliefs would reach that land as well.
     
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  4. Tony Bristow-Stagg

    Tony Bristow-Stagg One Planet One People Please
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    The question we can all ask is why was this so?

    If a person was to consider prophecy that is written in all Holy Writings from all corners of this planet, one would come upon repeatedly a promise of a day when peace and unity is to unfold.

    Are we living in that day and if so does that explain the reform all Faiths now face?

    Regards Tony
     
  5. LuisDantas

    LuisDantas Aura of atheification
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    It seems that such a question comes more naturally to some people than to others.
     
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  6. Vinayaka

    Vinayaka devotee
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    You can start another thread any time you want to, Tony. That's how this forum works.
     
  7. Tony Bristow-Stagg

    Tony Bristow-Stagg One Planet One People Please
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    I see it ties into your question about the reform of Islam and the timing of that reform with the explosion of knowledge that mankind has also experienced.

    Thus you raised an important topic.

    Regards Tony
     
    #327 Tony Bristow-Stagg, Aug 29, 2018
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2018
  8. paarsurrey

    paarsurrey Veteran Member

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    "allow me to point out that the later half of the 19th century was quite efervescent when it comes to creeds, faiths and religions.
    It was the time of the rise of spiritualism, of orientalism, of H.P. Blavastsky and Allan Kardec and the Golden Dawn.
    After many a century of almost automatic and often shallow, rote adherence towards the traditional religions of the land and of one's immediate ancestors, the advancement of transport and communication made a sudden and often unconfortable awareness of the diversity of creeds possible."

    Indeed such a time was clearly prophesied in Quran in the many ending chapters* of Quran.
    This was the time of
    advent of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad 1835-1908, the Promised Messiah, Imam Mahdi and the End-times-Reformer of all
    religions and of course for the non-believers also.

    Regards
    _____________
    * Quran Chapter:Verse
    [81:1]

    In the name of Allah, the Gracious, the Merciful.
    [81:2]
    When the sun is wrapped up,
    [81:3]
    And when the stars are obscured,
    [81:4]

    And when the mountains are made to move,
    [81:5]
    And when the she-camels, ten-month pregnant, are abandoned,
    [81:6]
    And when the beasts are gathered together,
    [81:7]
    And when the seas are made to flow forth one into the other,
    [81:8]
    And when people are brought together,

    [81:9]
    And when the girl-child buried alive is questioned about,
    [81:10]
    ‘For what crime was she killed?’
    [81:11]
    And when books are spread abroad.
    [81:12]
    And when the heaven is laid bare,
    [81:13]

    The Holy Quran - Chapter: 81: Al-Takwir



     
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  9. Aupmanyav

    Aupmanyav Be your own guru

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    Delhi has been the virtual capital of India for some 900 years even if we discount mythology which makes it the capital of Pandavas (Indraprastha). Delhi has nine forts. Category:Forts in Delhi - Wikipedia
     
    #329 Aupmanyav, Aug 29, 2018
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2018
  10. Aupmanyav

    Aupmanyav Be your own guru

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    Yes, the government was democratically elected but dominated by Nehru. Nehru was a canny politician. The explanation will not be easily understood by non-Indians, but I will try. He knew that if Hindus unite, then the rule of his family will end since his daughter, Indira had married a Zoroastrian. The first indication of his policy was when his party, Congress (Indian National Congress), blamed the Hindu combine, RSS (Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangha) for the murder of Mahatma Gandhi and had it banned. He and his successors from the family did everything to divide Hindus. It was only after 50 years of the family rule that the Hindu Party, BJP (Bharatiya Janata Party) was able to come to power. It delighted Congress if a few Hindus became Bahais, one more distraction for Hindus. I think the Bahai land purchase was felicitated by his government and was not a purely individual sale or purchase. I am trying to find the exact information.
     
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  11. Tony Bristow-Stagg

    Tony Bristow-Stagg One Planet One People Please
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    Using a 1970 Rupee inflation calculator to 2018, the 140,000 Paid would be equivalent to 5.8 Million dollars. So if we took that back to 1953 the land was not given away.

    It seems a very fair price was indeed paid.

    Much like my grandparents land in Western Australia. When they brought it was dirt cheap in Claremont well away from the city.

    These days land there for 500m2 is $1,000,000 AU

    Regards Tony
     
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  12. adrian009

    adrian009 Veteran Member
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    The main focus for Baha’i communities world wide over the last few years has been running neighbourhood children’s classes, youth programmes and adult classes. There has been a particular focus on the moral and spiritual empowerment of young people. In countries like New Zealand where rates of depression, addictions, crime and suicide are high amongst teenagers and those in their 20s these programmes can help some young people become better focused. The majority of participants are not Baha’is and they could be in neighbourhoods anywhere. There may even be one on your street.
     
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  13. Buddha Dharma

    Buddha Dharma Dharma Practitioner

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    What if your reform movement is based in the idea that the religion had gone astray somewhere? Case in point: Protestant Christianity. In the context and framework of Christianity- I do find many of the things Protestants suggested noteworthy and valid criticisms of the Church.
     
    #333 Buddha Dharma, Aug 30, 2018
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2018
  14. adrian009

    adrian009 Veteran Member
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    I feel totally comfortable educating others about Christ with an emphasis on the virtues He promoted. If Christians want too add in the resurrection and He was the son of god that’s fine. They have as much right to their beliefs as I have mine.
     
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  15. oldbadger

    oldbadger Skanky Old Mongrel!

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    The post that you replied to, inviting you to go to another place (post) in order to discuss the proceeds and spending of charity money reminds me of a Bahai meeting that I went to 45 years ago with my Bahai wife.
    At question time a man of Mid-East appearance rose and asked a question. The Bahai speaker explained that the question was not appropriate to the meeting. The man insisted that surely it was a good question for such a meeting and useful for all present to hear any Bahai answer. The Bahai speaker, after several attempts at refusal, diversion (I'm coming to that soon), procrastination (maybe we could meet afterwards to discuss?) offered to leave the meeting to speak with the man alone.
    I never even heard the question (daydreaming) but many visitors did, and many of them shook their heads in dismissal of the meeting, got up and left.

    Nothing has changed, it seems........
     
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  16. Vinayaka

    Vinayaka devotee
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    Investigate all you want, but we get to decide which questions can be asked. Thank God for the internet, and readily available information. It eliminates most of the deception.
     
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  17. LuisDantas

    LuisDantas Aura of atheification
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    That is easily among the most laudable achievements of the Bahai Faith, IMO. It taught a community of believers from a largely Muslim origin to be more accepting and at ease with the fact that people will have a variety of beliefs and that is not the end of the world.
     
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  18. oldbadger

    oldbadger Skanky Old Mongrel!

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    Now that is truly a miracle. Not even the most imaginative Sci-Fi writers would have tried to stretch our credibility as far as a fast worldwideweb system which could allow free investigation for nearly all people.
    I wonder what a Bahai World would do with it?
     
  19. Vinayaka

    Vinayaka devotee
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    Lots of totalitarian states control it, just as the press was controlled and continues to be, by often unseen forces. Even now, sites like Wiki are watched over by various folks who are quick to make edits to suit agendas. I'm not very optimistic actually. You?
     
  20. oldbadger

    oldbadger Skanky Old Mongrel!

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    I'm optimistic, because access to the internet can be via satellite comms, thus circumventing individual national controls. And kids today just surf it, ride it, jiggle with it...... if they want to show the world something then it's going to get seen.

    At least...... I hope I'm right.
     
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