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Twelve in Quran.

Discussion in 'Quranic Debates' started by Link, Jul 7, 2020.

  1. Link

    Link Well-Known Member

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    There are proofs in Quran that lead to other proofs, and doors that open other doors.

    If the concept of non-Nabi Messengers and non-Nabi Imams is accepted, this leads to other doors. If the concept of the chosen family is accepted, this leads to other doors.

    One of these things that lead to, is the concept of Twelve with respect to succession. It is understood with reflection:

    1. 5th Surah, is about the day God completed his religion and makes us journey to that day, by even verses not revealed on that day, but in flow with that, then is the Twelve Captains of the covenant of Moses with respect to his people, and in flow with that is God's judgment ruling humanity, and in flow with that, is the Prophets role with judging by revelation for the Jews and their scholars, and being one's entrusted to safeguard the revelation in this regard, and in flow with that, is even though the people revealed books to were entrusted to judge by what God revealed, not to take them as Authorities rather then God and his chosen ones, as some of them are authorities over others. And it warns like it does else where not to not love humans as much as God so as to attribute God what we don't know nor become intoxicated in the game of thrones of idols that we take people who take the religion as a game as authorities. In this regard, it reminds God the Messenger and those granted security - the one's represented by Imam Ali (a) when we have his ring in Ruku, are our only Wali (religious Authority to rely on for guidance in this context). The flow back to twelve is clear, and then later it reminds of the covenant again but says he sent Messengers.... instead of emphasizing on raising Twelve Captains.

    2. In 7th Surah, it reminds of Messengers when rejected the people were destroyed. I then takes a magnifying glass at Moses' and his story, and in flow of that, reminds from the people of Moses' is an a course who guide by the truth and by it they establish justice. And this is in flow of reminding the universal position of Mohammad (s) and that in is context that God has authority in the heavens and the earth, and his is the authority, and so it's obviously flowing with respect to that. Then it goes on to say while they were one course, one way, they were split into twelve branches as ways, the word branches refers to tree like branches stemming from a root, while in Hebrew, the word for that is with rivers, water splitting to more would be the word, and both are used for tribes by parable, but original meaning is not tribes. This is why Quran reminds of the splitting of the twelve rivers by Moses' because a lot of the words tribes is mistranslation of what should be seen to be as branches in the Torah and be referring to successors of Moses'. In flow with that later, is the reminder from who God created is a people who guide by the truth again. And linked that with God's beautiful names and rejection of them as rejection of signs/proofs of God and trespassing God's Names.

    3.

    9th Surah...

    In the same way Ulil-Amr is in context of negating the false authority of clergy class claiming to represent God's teachings or revelations, the twelve "Shahr" is in flow of that, and in flow of people going into extreme as a result of wanting to idolize their scholars to the extent they end up going to extremes with respect to worshiping humans like Jesus, but the intention in worshiping Jesus really stems from the love of the idols among clergy... And it talks about how clergy often take money from people and don't spend it in God's way and the corruption nature of religion and money when intertwined. Shahr although refers to lunar month in Arabic, it originally meant luminary, and was by parable - the moon and it's giving light - was said to be a Shahr (luminary)…

    However, the flow with the topic before, was about clergy and going into extreme of God's chosen. In this regard, it can be that twelve luminaries is the accurate meaning, and the sacred nature of 4 of them has to do with the name Ali. The reason is because if you go beyond exalting, you worship since exalting is the level below Worship, and also if you neglect or equate others with the exalted you discounted God's chosen and their superior nature. So this is a sacred ground by which we have to be balanced in, exalting but not worshiping them but yet not raising others to the status of God's chosen ones.

    In this light, it saying, the representatives after Mohammad (s) was twelve the day God created the heavens and the earth, and so don't mix corrupt clergy with their authority, but also, do not worship them, for God is above exalted ones, and although he is an exalted one, they are not gods to be worshiped.

    Then the next word for year, can instead of year "generic" and be referring to Mohammad (s) as a Messenger and that this number twelve is always the way of God not just for Mohammad (s), and so delaying a luminary, would be disbelief, in order to extinguish the number twelve which is sacred by God. Although the verse before talks about four of them being sacred, that is due to with the name. Here it has to do with their sacred number which is Thirteen including the founder and twelve when excluding the founder with respect to representing and illuminating the way.

    This all flows of course with respect to God's promise to make his religion superior to all religions. There is a hadith from Imam Mohammad Al-Baqir (a) that interprets the verse like this.

    One luminary is accepted for one generic (Ibrahim's successors for example) and another delayed for another generic (Aaron or Ali for example)… this is the meaning of generic here, and the generic here is a founder like Mohammad (s), that is why Imam Mohammad Baqir (a) says the word here "A'ama" refers to Mohammad (s) in that hadith.

    There is three other places that allude to the number of Imams, but these should suffice.
     
    #1 Link, Jul 7, 2020
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2020
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