TW: Nonconsent in media

[Meow Mix]

Trigger warning in case it wasn't obvious: this post is about r*pe in media.

I'm watching JJ Abrams' "Overlord," an otherwise fun movie about Nazi zombies. However, there is a scene where American soldiers are hiding in an attic while a German commander enters the home of and accosts a French woman (threatening to murder a child staying with her unless she verbally asks him to stay the night).

What commences is a brief scene of the officer roughly pushing her up onto a table and forcefully spreading her legs: the camera doesn't shy away from her expression (and to her credit, she's a good actress).

And anyway, this scene just makes me feel so defiled just even watching it, I was crossing my legs, my body cringing through the whole scene.

I have never been raped (though I have been sexually assaulted by men, choked, slammed against a wall by my throat once, groped inappropriately, etc.), but I can absolutely understand how someone that has been through something like that might feel more than discomfort during such a scene.

Now I know there are much worse scenes out there (this one was stopped relatively early, and without too much going on). But this is my point: do we really need to have scenes like this depicted in great detail in media? (Again, this one was relatively tame, I'm talking about other instances that aren't). What is the goal of depicting something like this rather than implying it?

 

[Viker]

I've questioned rape scenes as well. But I watch a lot of movies with violence and murder. Being a sexual abuse/rape survivor makes rape scenes cringe filled for me, i.e. Game of Thrones.

I think any goal may be to build on to the tension like in horror or gangster flick violence.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

But this is my point: do we really need to have scenes like this depicted in great detail in media?

Do we need anything in it? If we draw the line here where else where others want it drawn?
Most adults can separate real from fantasy, and I strongly support changing the channel and not watching over wanting others to change due to personal sensibilities. And, realistically, it's most often those of a conservative slant who end up doing the censoring when it happens, often with a strong bias towards religion.
Reminds me after I watched Fellowship of the Ring, leaving the auditorium I overheard a lady saying "sometimes I think the violence is just as bad as the nudity." Those are her beliefs, but to me that seems very backwards thinking violence has to be to the level that is shown in those movies "to bad as bad as nudity." And having nudity being so bad that it's less acceptable than violence, I just apparently don't live in the correct universe to have the upbringing to understand such a strange concept.

 

[Meow Mix]

Do we need anything in it? If we draw the line here where else where others want it drawn?
Most adults can separate real from fantasy, and I strongly support changing the channel and not watching over wanting others to change due to personal sensibilities. And, realistically, it's most often those of a conservative slant who end up doing the censoring when it happens, often with a strong bias towards religion.
Reminds me after I watched Fellowship of the Ring, leaving the auditorium I overheard a lady saying "sometimes I think the violence is just as bad as the nudity." Those are her beliefs, but to me that seems very backwards thinking violence has to be to the level that is shown in those movies "to bad as bad as nudity." And having nudity being so bad that it's less acceptable than violence, I just apparently don't live in the correct universe to have the upbringing to understand such a strange concept.

I can see how my phrasing might carry away the thought that I was talking about banning something, but I was not. I only meant to ask about or discuss the purpose of including a graphic rape scene (more graphic than the one in Overlord, where the purpose is obviously to make you hate the German; and where the real violence is mostly implied rather than shown). I just know there are other scenes that are very much shown more than implied.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

But this is my point: do we really need to have scenes like this depicted in great detail in media? What is the goal of depicting something like this rather than implying it?

I've tossed this question around in my head a few times, moreso in relation to my writing than anything else.
Maybe ten years ago, I would have had a more straightforward answer. Something like;

You mentioned the visceral reaction you got watching the scene. That's the reason the scene was included. It was to elicit that very physical response to what's happening on the screen. Alluding or implying this time of crime is all well and good (and should always be considered) but that won't create the same connection you felt for the character on screen. Seeing the crime actually occurring is impactful in a way a mere implication can't be, and indeed simply implying it can put a veneer of politeness over the whole thing that it shouldn't have.

There's some validity to that, maybe, but I'm less sure now. My current answer is;

We don't need to have it, no. And any time it's being done for purposes that aren't central to the tale being told, I think we should avoid it. There is a cost to showing this sort of violence to victims of it (or even near victims, etc). Getting people to either sympathise or empathise with characters is a key piece of the story telling art, so we need to ask ourselves who amongst our audience are we trying to empathise with a rape victim, and to what end? And does this particular depiction help in that goal?
Any movie with 'zombie' in the title would automatically be discarded from graphic depictions of rape, with this in mind.
However, I still think graphical depictions of rape in media have a place...albeit only in quite specific contexts.

 

[Meow Mix]

I've tossed this question around in my head a few times, moreso in relation to my writing than anything else.
Maybe ten years ago, I would have had a more straightforward answer. Something like;

You mentioned the visceral reaction you got watching the scene. That's the reason the scene was included. It was to elicit that very physical response to what's happening on the screen. Alluding or implying this time of crime is all well and good (and should always be considered) but that won't create the same connection you felt for the character on screen. Seeing the crime actually occurring is impactful in a way a mere implication can't be, and indeed simply implying it can put a veneer of politeness over the whole thing that it shouldn't have.

There's some validity to that, maybe, but I'm less sure now. My current answer is;

We don't need to have it, no. And any time it's being done for purposes that aren't central to the tale being told, I think we should avoid it. There is a cost to showing this sort of violence to victims of it (or even near victims, etc). Getting people to either sympathise or empathise with characters is a key piece of the story telling art, so we need to ask ourselves who amongst our audience are we trying to empathise with a rape victim, and to what end? And does this particular depiction help in that goal?
Any movie with 'zombie' in the title would automatically be discarded from graphic depictions of rape, with this in mind.
However, I still think graphical depictions of rape in media have a place...albeit only in quite specific contexts.

This was very thoughtful. See! You can do it buddy! (I’m joking, it truly was very thoughtful)

 

[F1fan]

I suppose it is a matter of "buyer beware". It's why they put ratings on movies.

I've seen explicit sex scenes in moves that really didn't need to be part of it. As a heterosexual male i shouldn't have a problem with it. But I've heard stories over the years that female actors have to agree to explicit scenes to be hired. So I'm not sure what is going on. I have to admit that I have mixed feelings about watching a movie where there may be exploitation at play.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I can see how my phrasing might carry away the thought that I was talking about banning something, but I was not. I only meant to ask about or discuss the purpose of including a graphic rape scene (more graphic than the one in Overlord, where the purpose is obviously to make you hate the German; and where the real violence is mostly implied rather than shown). I just know there are other scenes that are very much shown more than implied.

Most of the time I just see it as cheap, lazy writing. Not always, of course, but very often it's mass manufactured for a disposable society with less attention than a goldfish (literally on that last part).

 

[lewisnotmiller]

Most of the time I just see it as cheap, lazy writing. Not always, of course, but very often it's mass manufactured for a disposable society with less attention than a goldfish (literally on that last part).

I did a scientific experiment on goldfish memory and retention once (as part of my Uni major). They scored better than expected. I'm here for the goldfish.
And yes, I am now so damn old I have a story for almost anything anyone says.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

This was very thoughtful. See! You can do it buddy! (I’m joking, it truly was very thoughtful)

Thanks!! And you don't need to explain your jokes. Me needing to be encouraged to treat things as a joke is not a thing. It's just how I roll naturally.

 

[SomeRandom]

I’ve seen some quite graphic scenes of rape in media. Mostly from European cinema, if I’m honest
Whilst there is definite use of “gore porn” (see the Saw franchise) I’ve never seen it glamorised or condoned. Maybe “air brushed” by Hollywood
But it’s always visceral and disturbing. I’ve even seen a movie where the scene was being filmed in a fictional creation of a movie and even then the aftermath was disturbing as the “actress” was distressed. The narration suggesting the director pushed it too far in the pursuit of “art.”
Even the “actor” seemed appalled.
And if it fits with the art, then it’s as needed as murder or serial killers

 

[Meow Mix]

I’ve seen some quite graphic scenes of rape in media. Mostly from European cinema, if I’m honest
Whilst there is definite use of “gore porn” (see the Saw franchise) I’ve never seen it glamorised or condoned. Maybe “air brushed” by Hollywood
But it’s always visceral and disturbing. I’ve even seen a movie where the scene was being filmed in a fictional creation of a movie and even then the aftermath was disturbing as the “actress” was distressed. The narration suggesting the director pushed it too far in the pursuit of “art.”
Even the “actor” seemed appalled.
And if it fits with the art, then it’s as needed as murder or serial killers

I get this last part. Sometimes it seems thrown in just because, though. I'm not saying to ban anything here, but I'm definitely going to walk away from a film liking it less if it does this in a way that isn't integral to the plot.

 

[ChristineM]

Trigger warning in case it wasn't obvious: this post is about r*pe in media.

I'm watching JJ Abrams' "Overlord," an otherwise fun movie about Nazi zombies. However, there is a scene where American soldiers are hiding in an attic while a German commander enters the home of and accosts a French woman (threatening to murder a child staying with her unless she verbally asks him to stay the night).

What commences is a brief scene of the officer roughly pushing her up onto a table and forcefully spreading her legs: the camera doesn't shy away from her expression (and to her credit, she's a good actress).

And anyway, this scene just makes me feel so defiled just even watching it, I was crossing my legs, my body cringing through the whole scene.

I have never been raped (though I have been sexually assaulted by men, choked, slammed against a wall by my throat once, groped inappropriately, etc.), but I can absolutely understand how someone that has been through something like that might feel more than discomfort during such a scene.

Now I know there are much worse scenes out there (this one was stopped relatively early, and without too much going on). But this is my point: do we really need to have scenes like this depicted in great detail in media? (Again, this one was relatively tame, I'm talking about other instances that aren't). What is the goal of depicting something like this rather than implying it?

People like to see other people suffer so movie director's will continue putting in such scenes because there is money to be made.

Personally such a scene would bring back horrors I don't want to remember so i couldn't watch it.

So that my bit of there income they wont get.

 

[Meow Mix]

People like to see other people suffer so movie director's will continue putting in such scenes because there is money to be made.

Personally such a scene would bring back horrors I don't want to remember so i couldn't watch it.

So that my bit of there income they wont get.

I wish there were a hug response. Friendly for hug today.

 

[exchemist]

Trigger warning in case it wasn't obvious: this post is about r*pe in media.

I'm watching JJ Abrams' "Overlord," an otherwise fun movie about Nazi zombies. However, there is a scene where American soldiers are hiding in an attic while a German commander enters the home of and accosts a French woman (threatening to murder a child staying with her unless she verbally asks him to stay the night).

What commences is a brief scene of the officer roughly pushing her up onto a table and forcefully spreading her legs: the camera doesn't shy away from her expression (and to her credit, she's a good actress).

And anyway, this scene just makes me feel so defiled just even watching it, I was crossing my legs, my body cringing through the whole scene.

I have never been raped (though I have been sexually assaulted by men, choked, slammed against a wall by my throat once, groped inappropriately, etc.), but I can absolutely understand how someone that has been through something like that might feel more than discomfort during such a scene.

Now I know there are much worse scenes out there (this one was stopped relatively early, and without too much going on). But this is my point: do we really need to have scenes like this depicted in great detail in media? (Again, this one was relatively tame, I'm talking about other instances that aren't). What is the goal of depicting something like this rather than implying it?

I agree that showing it is not necessary.

I'd even extend the principle to depiction of sex in general, in film. What artistic purpose can it serve to show two people bonking, or undressing one another beforehand? I find it faintly embarrassing to watch and I'm sure I'm not the only one. One can indicate that two people are about to have sex and that's enough. It's private. Also it demands that the actor and actress simulate something deeply personal and invasive, for no good reason.

 

[Erebus]

What is the goal of depicting something like this rather than implying it?

A few possibilities:

1. It's a cynical attempt at shock value. Notoriety can potentially help a film attract viewers which can be particularly useful for lower budget or niche films. The Human Centipede and A Serbian Film both received more attention than they probably deserved due to how shocking they were.

2. It's a quick way to establish a villain as utterly, irredeemably evil. Along with torture and child murder, rape is one of those things that get a visceral, hostile reaction from audiences.

3. Horror in particular often explores the worst in humanity. While there are plenty of schlocky, fun films out there, some films aim to be genuinely unsettling. Rape is one way to achieve that.

4. Some films, particularly war films, aim at realism. Rape is and always has been a fact of war. If a piece of media also has an anti-war message, it's possible the creator felt that shying away from depicting the reality of rape would undercut their message.


Those are just some of the possible reasons somebody might choose to depict rape. Personally, it's not something I want to see, just as I don't want to see animal abuse. Hounds of Love is a perfect example of a film I never intend to watch again and I'd advise anybody with a history of being abused to stay clear of it.


*Edit* I will point out that I don't have much experience of watching films that graphically depict rape. I have seen Overlord though and know the scene you're talking about. While I'm not entirely averse to extreme cinema (Martyrs is a well-made film even though I never want to watch it again) I tend to avoid things like the Nazisploitation genre which often have what I consider gratuitous depictions of rape.

 

[Meow Mix]

A few possibilities:

1. It's a cynical attempt at shock value. Notoriety can potentially help a film attract viewers which can be particularly useful for lower budget or niche films. The Human Centipede and A Serbian Film both received more attention than they probably deserved due to how shocking they were.

2. It's a quick way to establish a villain as utterly, irredeemably evil. Along with torture and child murder, rape is one of those things that get a visceral, hostile reaction from audiences.

3. Horror in particular often explores the worst in humanity. While there are plenty of schlocky, fun films out there, some films aim to be genuinely unsettling. Rape is one way to achieve that.

4. Some films, particularly war films, aim at realism. Rape is and always has been a fact of war. If a piece of media also has an anti-war message, it's possible the creator felt that shying away from depicting the reality of rape would undercut their message.


Those are just some of the possible reasons somebody might choose to depict rape. Personally, it's not something I want to see, just as I don't want to see animal abuse. Hounds of Love is a perfect example of a film I never intend to watch again and I'd advise anybody with a history of being abused to stay clear of it.


*Edit* I will point out that I don't have much experience of watching films that graphically depict rape. I have seen Overlord though and know the scene you're talking about. While I'm not entirely averse to extreme cinema (Martyrs is a well-made film even though I never want to watch it again) I tend to avoid things like the Nazisploitation genre which often have what I consider gratuitous depictions of rape.

This is a good analysis I think.

I don't know why that relatively minor/tame scene in Overlord affected me so viscerally tonight. Must have been in a mood. I think that scene falls under the Nazisploitation banner though.

 

[Erebus]

This is a good analysis I think.

I don't know why that relatively minor/tame scene in Overlord affected me so viscerally tonight. Must have been in a mood. I think that scene falls under the Nazisploitation banner though.

It was definitely an uncomfortable moment in an otherwise fun homage to B movies. Perhaps it was a deliberate reference to Nazisploitation films? I'm not sure.

 

[SomeRandom]

I get this last part. Sometimes it seems thrown in just because, though. I'm not saying to ban anything here, but I'm definitely going to walk away from a film liking it less if it does this in a way that isn't integral to the plot.

That’s fair. I might be somewhat desensitised to such an occurrence through my love of classical myth. Which is somewhat disturbing if I’m honest