Turkey: Erdoğan signs executive order to leave Istanbul Convention on violence against women

[danieldemol]

'Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan pulled Turkey out of the Council of Europe Convention on Preventing and Combating Violence against Women and Domestic Violence, better known as the Istanbul Convention, via an executive order published in the Official Gazette on Friday night.

The move comes after months-long debates on whether Turkey should withdraw that continued throughout the summer, with pro-government conservative and Islamist groups arguing against the convention. However, overall objection to the convention remained low, with only 17 percent of Turks approving of Erdoğan's pledge to withdraw, according to a July poll.'

Source: Erdoğan signs executive order to leave Istanbul Convention on violence against women | Ahval

Looks as though Erdogan is bowing down in submission to Islamists who want to beat their wives

 

[Windwalker]

So, is this saying that conservatives in Turkey are against denouncing violence against women? Why? What are they doing in their homes that they don't want to be criticized by outside groups like this? It's their right to smack around the ladies whom they can't control?

 

[Shakeel]

Probably a western type of a convention. They're often problematic. The question is, why do westerners insist everyone should be like them?

 

[Debater Slayer]

Probably a western type of a convention. They're often problematic. The question is, why do westerners insist everyone should be like them?

What is problematic about a convention against violence targeting women? And by saying that it is a "Western type of convention," don't you think you're implying a negative (and false) thing about non-Western cultures by basically saying they don't oppose violence against women?

 

[Windwalker]

Probably a western type of a convention. They're often problematic. The question is, why do westerners insist everyone should be like them?

Not beating up women, not killing people, not raping, not stealing, not molesting children, etc. Are these Western values to you? Do these conflict in your mind with Near Eastern values?

 

[Shakeel]

What is problematic about a convention against violence targeting women? And by saying that it is a "Western type of convention," don't you think you're implying a negative (and false) thing about non-Western cultures by basically saying they don't oppose violence against women?

I didn't say there was anything problematic with it.
Nope.

 

[Shakeel]

Not beating up women, not killing people, not raping, not stealing, not molesting children, etc. Are these Western values to you? Do these conflict in your mind with Near Eastern values?

I don't know if those are values at all.

 

[Windwalker]

I don't know if those are values at all.

Then why did you ask, "why do westerners insist everyone should be like them?", in the context of the West wanting Turkey to participate in an effort to stop violence against women? Does Turkey think it's okay?

Why else would you suggest this is about the West insisting everyone be like them? Is respecting women equally and not beating them up, a western value, and not a Near Eastern one?

One would think this is just simply asking Turkey to join the rest of the world in denouncing the mistreatment of females in their culture, and it has nothing to do with the West imposing anything on anyone. Unless, of course, it does not reflect their culture and women are viewed as property by their male owners? I don't believe that's true, is it?

 

[Lyndon]

Only 17% of Turkish citizens support this reversal, its all their crazy dictator Erdogan's fault

 

[Shakeel]

Then why did you ask, "why do westerners insist everyone should be like them?", in the context of the West wanting Turkey to participate in an effort to stop violence against women? Does Turkey think it's okay?

Why else would you suggest this is about the West insisting everyone be like them? Is respecting women equally and not beating them up, a western value, and not a Near Eastern one?

One would think this is just simply asking Turkey to join the rest of the world in denouncing the mistreatment of females in their culture, and it has nothing to do with the West imposing anything on anyone. Unless, of course, it does not reflect their culture and women are viewed as property by their male owners? I don't believe that's true, is it?

You haven't noticed that I didn't object to a "convention on violence against women", although I don't know that Muslims need such a thing. They have Islam.

What I said was that the specific convention was probably made with Western ideas. They so often are. And those western ideas frequently contradict Islam.

 

[Shakeel]

Unless, of course, it does not reflect their culture and women are viewed as property by their male owners? I don't believe that's true, is it?

No, that would be traditional Judeo-Christian culture.

 

[Regiomontanus]

It will always be Constantinople to me.

 

[sun rise]

And those western ideas frequently contradict Islam.

Truth? Justice? Fairness? Honesty? Honoring one's parents? Men treating women with kindness and love?

"frequently contradict Islam" led me to ask those questions.

 

[Shakeel]

Truth? Justice? Fairness? Honesty? Honoring one's parents? Men treating women with kindness and love?

"frequently contradict Islam" led me to ask those questions.

Honoring one's parents? Do you see that as a western value?

All those are much better in Islam than in any western society.

 

[Heyo]

Only 17% of Turkish citizens support this reversal, its all their crazy dictator Erdogan's fault

Whom they elected.
Let's hope he goes the way of the Trump.

 

[ChristineM]

Probably a western type of a convention. They're often problematic. The question is, why do westerners insist everyone should be like them?

The question is why are middle eastern men so insecure that they must beat their women?

 

[Heyo]

What I said was that the specific convention was probably made with Western ideas. They so often are. And those western ideas frequently contradict Islam.

Yes they do. And I find it entertaining how Muslim scholars try to argue that they do and that they don't at the same time.

 

[Shakeel]

Yes they do. And I find it entertaining how Muslim scholars try to argue that they do and that they don't at the same time.

Let's see one of those arguments.

 

[Heyo]

Let's see one of those arguments.

Not that I want to accuse you of being a scholar but your posts are an example of arguing both sides.

Probably a western type of a convention. They're often problematic. The question is, why do westerners insist everyone should be like them?

Problematic western convention.

I didn't say there was anything problematic with it.
Nope.

Denying the previous post. (Technically you you didn't say that it was problematic, only that it was probably problematic. But that is part of the tactic, never get caught in a definitive assertion, always only insinuate.)

You haven't noticed that I didn't object to a "convention on violence against women", although I don't know that Muslims need such a thing. They have Islam.

What I said was that the specific convention was probably made with Western ideas. They so often are. And those western ideas frequently contradict Islam.

And again not directly objecting to the conference while maintaining it is probably problematic. And all while never naming what might be problematic or how it contradicts Islam.

You try to signal to the westerners that you aren't against protecting women from violence (because that would leave you (and Islam) in a bad light to the westerners) while in the same sentence dog-whistling to the Muslim that violence against women is A-OK (because in their view it is).

 

[sun rise]

Honoring one's parents? Do you see that as a western value?

All those are much better in Islam than in any western society.

One of the 10 Commandments in the Bible is to honor one's mother and father. So, yes, it's a Western value. (It's also a Hindu value which makes it

"Much better" is a value judgment and of course different from "frequently contradict".