Trying to find contradictions...

[BlackAce]

Bear with me.

I have been a Satanist for the last 10 years, was raised by my aunt who was a Witch but other than rituals and a couple practices (Cleansings, calling on The Ancestors, The Sacred Journey) I do not really practice The Craft anymore.

I have long been interested in attending a Unitarian Universalist church and as far as I can tell just by surface readings, Satanism is not incompatible with UU.

Id like to discuss this with someone, if I find that there is no way to practice both, I will of course abort my plans to explore UU, not an issue,

UU believes that all people have Inherent worth. I believe that all people have Inherent worth but that they can prove themselves as unworthy of love, compassion and respect, take Isis for example, those people do not deserve much of anything!

I understand that love and compassion are big in UU. I believe in showing love and compassion to everyone until they show me they do not deserve it, again terrorists come to mind. Murderers, rapists, child abusers...etc...

Justice is BIG to Satanists. We believe in fact that the current justice system is flawed, I believe that when someone does something criminal they should be treated like for like, these lengthy trials and prolonged wait for execution I find a bit ridiculous.

What does a UU mean by Equity? Being fair? This one is complicated for me. I consider myself a fair and honest person in my dealings with people outside of my Job but I work in a job where we are not always honest with our customers, in fact sometimes in order to sell the product we have to lie. Its a good job that I have had for years and I make good money, I am also not in a position to quit and look for other work so I stay with it. I also do not feel any guilt in doing my job, I honestly believe in responsibility to the responsible, if you are dumb enough to buy a product that has not been clinically tested then I feel like--a fool and his money are soon parted applies.

I accept people and their searches for truth and meaning, not all religions make sense to all people and in fact as I have already said, while I believe in Satanism, my practices remain very Pagan so clearly one size does not fit all for me either.

I would never tell someone their path was wrong, I am not anti religious, anti God, anti Christian, I am also not anti Wiccan as some Wiccans seem to be towards Satanists, I feel we each have a Journey to walk, mine may change so I cant very well judge Christianity for example because you just never know where you will be next!

The use of the democratic process I agree with, the right of conscience? what does that mean to a UU?

Peace, liberty and Justice. Most Satanists take a cynical view, world peace is impossible to achieve so why should we bother? I am not like that. I say that we should strive for Peace, betterment, understanding. We may not ever get it but that does not mean we should not keep trying.

Respect for the interdependent web. Well... As a former Pagan I get this. I do not believe Nature is Sacred though, only aesthetically pleasing but of course I do want to protect the aspects of nature that are pleasing to me and so I do not litter, I clean up trash when I find it in my local park, I try to protect animals, I help the homeless and low income families, I love to be of service. Its selfish and in line with Satanism which says to do that which makes you happy and that in helping others you are being selfish because you are only doing it because it makes you feel good or worthwhile, I agree with this.

But I eat meat, I do not recycle, I am not worried about GMO's, in fact I just learned of that concept a couple weeks ago, I live my life for me, I enjoy my life for me. I indulge, experience and explore...If something in Nature is harmed (like a cow) I do not worry too much. does that mean I am being disrespectful? Are UU's Vegan? No right?

I also believe that all religions and cultures have something to teach us, I read devotionals from Jesus/Christianity, New Thought and New Age, Wicca, Native American beliefs, I love Taoism and Zen, some Buddhism but I am PRIMARILY a Satanist.

So...I am open to answering questions about myself and my beliefs and I love to discuss, debate, I know I have not posted here much, been going through a lot of personal upheavals so I have not been around but I am back now :-D

Thanks for reading and answering in advance!

 

[Faybull]

UU believes that all people have Inherent worth. I believe that all people have Inherent worth but that they can prove themselves as unworthy of love, compassion and respect, take Isis for example, those people do not deserve much of anything!

Really? Some 14 year old wishes his mother or father or brother or sister loved him like you do. Too bad huh? Who exactly is worthy of grace? Of mercy? Does it work on a sliding scale?

Respect for the interdependent web. Well... As a former Pagan I get this. I do not believe Nature is Sacred though, only aesthetically pleasing but of course I do want to protect the aspects of nature that are pleasing to me and so I do not litter, I clean up trash when I find it in my local park, I try to protect animals, I help the homeless and low income families, I love to be of service. Its selfish and in line with Satanism which says to do that which makes you happy and that in helping others you are being selfish because you are only doing it because it makes you feel good or worthwhile, I agree with this.

So, in your mind, you view the self as separated from nature? What of the aspects of nature that you are unaware of?


After reading the post I feel you as a hedonist, not so much a Satanist. They may overlap, but they are not mutual.


Just trying to converse with ya. Cheers!

 

[BlackAce]

Really? Some 14 year old wishes his mother or father or brother or sister loved him like you do. Too bad huh? Who exactly is worthy of grace? Of mercy? Does it work on a sliding scale?



So, in your mind, you view the self as separated from nature? What of the aspects of nature that you are unaware of?


After reading the post I feel you as a hedonist, not so much a Satanist. They may overlap, but they are not mutual.


Just trying to converse with ya. Cheers!

Well

I am a Satanist because I agree with the Satanic Bible and other literature. I found myself in those books and I happen to agree with the Religion almost completely save for the rituals. I feel that some people do not deserve love. Those that treat me or others like **** are not going to get mercy or love from me. Nor will I show them compassion. A 14 yr old has nothing to do with Isis. NOTHING to do with rapists or murderers. I never said I was separated from Nature, I said that some parts of Nature are PLEASING to me and others are not. I do not consider nature on a wider scale to be Sacred. Satanists are hedonists at times. But I guess you answered the question. Universal love is not coming from me--ever. Scum deserves to be treated as scum. Have a nice day.

 

[Faybull]

Well

I am a Satanist because I agree with the Satanic Bible and other literature. I found myself in those books and I happen to agree with the Religion almost completely save for the rituals. I feel that some people do not deserve love. Those that treat me or others like **** are not going to get mercy or love from me. Nor will I show them compassion. A 14 yr old has nothing to do with Isis. NOTHING to do with rapists or murderers. I never said I was separated from Nature, I said that some parts of Nature are PLEASING to me and others are not. I do not consider nature on a wider scale to be Sacred. Satanists are hedonists at times. But I guess you answered the question. Universal love is not coming from me--ever. Scum deserves to be treated as scum. Have a nice day.

Scum is just perspective. We all have our use.

 

[Faybull]

Scum is just perspective. We all have our use.

You have a nice day too. Cheers!

 

[Angel1]

Bear with me.

I have been a Satanist for the last 10 years, was raised by my aunt who was a Witch but other than rituals and a couple practices (Cleansings, calling on The Ancestors, The Sacred Journey) I do not really practice The Craft anymore.

I have long been interested in attending a Unitarian Universalist church and as far as I can tell just by surface readings, Satanism is not incompatible with UU.

Id like to discuss this with someone, if I find that there is no way to practice both, I will of course abort my plans to explore UU, not an issue,

UU believes that all people have Inherent worth. I believe that all people have Inherent worth but that they can prove themselves as unworthy of love, compassion and respect, take Isis for example, those people do not deserve much of anything!

I understand that love and compassion are big in UU. I believe in showing love and compassion to everyone until they show me they do not deserve it, again terrorists come to mind. Murderers, rapists, child abusers...etc...

Justice is BIG to Satanists. We believe in fact that the current justice system is flawed, I believe that when someone does something criminal they should be treated like for like, these lengthy trials and prolonged wait for execution I find a bit ridiculous.

What does a UU mean by Equity? Being fair? This one is complicated for me. I consider myself a fair and honest person in my dealings with people outside of my Job but I work in a job where we are not always honest with our customers, in fact sometimes in order to sell the product we have to lie. Its a good job that I have had for years and I make good money, I am also not in a position to quit and look for other work so I stay with it. I also do not feel any guilt in doing my job, I honestly believe in responsibility to the responsible, if you are dumb enough to buy a product that has not been clinically tested then I feel like--a fool and his money are soon parted applies.

I accept people and their searches for truth and meaning, not all religions make sense to all people and in fact as I have already said, while I believe in Satanism, my practices remain very Pagan so clearly one size does not fit all for me either.

I would never tell someone their path was wrong, I am not anti religious, anti God, anti Christian, I am also not anti Wiccan as some Wiccans seem to be towards Satanists, I feel we each have a Journey to walk, mine may change so I cant very well judge Christianity for example because you just never know where you will be next!

The use of the democratic process I agree with, the right of conscience? what does that mean to a UU?

Peace, liberty and Justice. Most Satanists take a cynical view, world peace is impossible to achieve so why should we bother? I am not like that. I say that we should strive for Peace, betterment, understanding. We may not ever get it but that does not mean we should not keep trying.

Respect for the interdependent web. Well... As a former Pagan I get this. I do not believe Nature is Sacred though, only aesthetically pleasing but of course I do want to protect the aspects of nature that are pleasing to me and so I do not litter, I clean up trash when I find it in my local park, I try to protect animals, I help the homeless and low income families, I love to be of service. Its selfish and in line with Satanism which says to do that which makes you happy and that in helping others you are being selfish because you are only doing it because it makes you feel good or worthwhile, I agree with this.

But I eat meat, I do not recycle, I am not worried about GMO's, in fact I just learned of that concept a couple weeks ago, I live my life for me, I enjoy my life for me. I indulge, experience and explore...If something in Nature is harmed (like a cow) I do not worry too much. does that mean I am being disrespectful? Are UU's Vegan? No right?

I also believe that all religions and cultures have something to teach us, I read devotionals from Jesus/Christianity, New Thought and New Age, Wicca, Native American beliefs, I love Taoism and Zen, some Buddhism but I am PRIMARILY a Satanist.

So...I am open to answering questions about myself and my beliefs and I love to discuss, debate, I know I have not posted here much, been going through a lot of personal upheavals so I have not been around but I am back now :-D

Thanks for reading and answering in advance!

If we will only get over the terms, we will find that we are all basically the same. All of us are seeking meaning to our life through our personal experiences.

We humans need to learn so much, still. How to do this? Simple. Just go where your interest is. Live life. We will commit mistakes, make wrong choices but slowly, we will progress and learn. Next time, we will be able to do better.

Being a Satanist so long as you don't cause harm to others is okay. Wanting to join UU is okay, too. Go where your heart leads you. Wherever that is, there is something there for you that will help you move forward toward our goal of spiritual perfection.

Along the way, we will learn what is good and right for us. Through the effects of acts done to us by others, we will learn to prefer to do good and not bad. We will inevitably choose to live right if only to avoid the suffering that returns to when we do wrong.

You have good qualities. You are open and non-judgmental. You realize that we are all responsible for our own actions. A little extreme, perhaps, in your eye for an eye philosophy, which is contrary to the teaching on mercy and forgiveness. You love animals and protect them. You believe that every school of thought or religion has something to teach and you are open to learning them.

Just continue on your journey. Do unto others... and you will get by.

 

[BlackAce]

Maybe you can tell me the purpose of a terrorist. Isis seems to be focused on one thing--Murder. Fear. Torment. That does not seem to be very useful to me. What about Ted Bundy? Jeffrey Dahmer? A rapist that targets children. What purpose do these people serve? None that I can see, They are trash and should be executed to the fullest extent of the law (which is screwed up)

So, I will not show love or compassion for these people. Ever. I will never show compassion to the man that murdered my first lover. He can die.

I did not realize that being a UU means loving such people. I can love and have compassion for people that are innocent. I love to help feed and clothe people, I help build houses, I help old ladies across the street. I believe in respecting different cultures. I agree with the 7 Principles. But I guess that is not enough. So I will look elsewhere. Thanks for the help.

 

[StarryNightshade]

There are a couple of Satanists (and quite a few Luciferians and Thelemites) at the UU I used to attend. They can make it work, so I suppose they're not as incompatible as you think?

 

[Quintessence]

I have long been interested in attending a Unitarian Universalist church and as far as I can tell just by surface readings, Satanism is not incompatible with UU.

Probably depends on the Satanist and exactly what flavor of Satanism they're practicing. I'm speaking as a former and horribly lapsed member of a UU fellowship, by the way. I really need to get off my #@% on Sundays and start going again.

UU believes that all people have Inherent worth. I believe that all people have Inherent worth but that they can prove themselves as unworthy of love, compassion and respect, take ISIS for example, those people do not deserve much of anything!

Believing all people have inherent worth doesn't mean you're some starry-eyed peace-loving hippie pushover. UU fellowships are and have historically been very active in human rights campaigns and other political causes, which have and will continue to include condemnation of terrorist organisations.

Justice is BIG to Satanists. We believe in fact that the current justice system is flawed, I believe that when someone does something criminal they should be treated like for like, these lengthy trials and prolonged wait for execution I find a bit ridiculous.

What the second principle focuses on is social and community responsibility. In other words, it's not enough to just be treating individuals with respect, there's collective responsibility too. UUs are typically not huge fans of punitive justice (as opposed to rehabilitative or restorative justice). Your statement here doesn't sound particularly compassionate, so yeah, that might be a bit of a problem. But again, see the response to the statement above.

What does a UU mean by Equity? Being fair? This one is complicated for me. I consider myself a fair and honest person in my dealings with people outside of my Job but I work in a job where we are not always honest with our customers, in fact sometimes in order to sell the product we have to lie. Its a good job that I have had for years and I make good money, I am also not in a position to quit and look for other work so I stay with it. I also do not feel any guilt in doing my job, I honestly believe in responsibility to the responsible, if you are dumb enough to buy a product that has not been clinically tested then I feel like--a fool and his money are soon parted applies.

You'd want to ask yourself how this relates to the second principle. Basically, it would encourage you to move towards a lifestyle that is more in keeping with that idea of community responsibility. If you can't do that in your job and are unable or unwilling to change jobs, find some other area in your life that fulfills that role.

I accept people and their searches for truth and meaning, not all religions make sense to all people and in fact as I have already said, while I believe in Satanism, my practices remain very Pagan so clearly one size does not fit all for me either.

I would never tell someone their path was wrong, I am not anti religious, anti God, anti Christian, I am also not anti Wiccan as some Wiccans seem to be towards Satanists, I feel we each have a Journey to walk, mine may change so I cant very well judge Christianity for example because you just never know where you will be next!

Then you'll fit right in!

The use of the democratic process I agree with, the right of conscience? what does that mean to a UU?

It basically means that within the democratic process, you have the right to express yourself in a manner that is true to your ideals regardless of whether or not others agree. It means that individualism is respected within the greater context of community.

Peace, liberty and Justice. Most Satanists take a cynical view, world peace is impossible to achieve so why should we bother? I am not like that. I say that we should strive for Peace, betterment, understanding. We may not ever get it but that does not mean we should not keep trying.

Then you'll fit right in!

Respect for the interdependent web. Well... As a former Pagan I get this. I do not believe Nature is Sacred though, only aesthetically pleasing but of course I do want to protect the aspects of nature that are pleasing to me and so I do not litter, I clean up trash when I find it in my local park, I try to protect animals, I help the homeless and low income families, I love to be of service.

You don't have to deify nature to be UU, though there are quite a few Neopagans within UU.

Its selfish and in line with Satanism which says to do that which makes you happy and that in helping others you are being selfish because you are only doing it because it makes you feel good or worthwhile, I agree with this.

Not exactly the take on service that your typical UUer would jive with. But you know, actions speak louder than internally-held beliefs. I couldn't care less why someone is doing something compared to them actually doing it.

But I eat meat, I do not recycle, I am not worried about GMO's, in fact I just learned of that concept a couple weeks ago, I live my life for me, I enjoy my life for me. I indulge, experience and explore...If something in Nature is harmed (like a cow) I do not worry too much. does that mean I am being disrespectful? Are UU's Vegan? No right?

LOL. Do outsiders really think UUs have to be vegans? Oh dear...

Basically, it's about having a more ecocentric ethic rather than our culture's standard anthropocentrism. Be mindful of the non-human world. You don't have to be fanatical about it, but I would take steps here and there to live simply as much as you can so that others may simply live.

I also believe that all religions and cultures have something to teach us, I read devotionals from Jesus/Christianity, New Thought and New Age, Wicca, Native American beliefs, I love Taoism and Zen, some Buddhism but I am PRIMARILY a Satanist.

Not a problem. In fact, UU fellowships are probably the only place you can get multi-religious education.

One thing I'd like to emphasize is that UU, while an organized religion, is non-dogmatic and non-creedal. Basically, if you don't agree with the spirit of the seven principles you're probably going to feel at odds with a given fellowship, but there isn't some incontrovertible thing you have to follow. It's an odd concept for those coming from a dogmatic, revealed religion. What I suggest you do is just attend some services. You don't have to join. Ever, really. I've attended services as a non-member far more than I have as a member.