Truth: either God exists or He don't.

[stvdv]

"Common Hindu thought" isn't really that common. Hinduism is diverse, with many schools of philosophy and at least three yogic paths (jnana, bhakti, and karma).

That is very true. Hinduism is diverse, and hence usually quite tolerant and some even applauding towards other philosophies and/or religions

While @stvdv has every right to have the views of his master and still identify as Hindu, and while other Hindus probably have this view, as I demonstrate above, his view are most certainly not "common Hindu thought."

You could say that my way is not "common". But don't forget that each human has a unique path (they have the term Swadharma in Hinduism). Some follow a quite unique path (which by the way is not seen as "uncommon" by many). Others follow a more "common" way.

There are probably more than 50 million (ca. 4% of all Hindus) who see my way as "not uncommon". So, I would not call that "not common"

 

[Wandering Monk]

Most religious people seem to believe that without religion humanity will be barbarian.

Leaving aside the wars and persecutions inflicted on others in the name of religion, it assumes that people have no empathy for others if it weren't for religion.

Some animals have empathy for others in their group who are suffering. Are we less than them?

Psychiatrists have a word for someone without empathy: sociopath.

 

[Polymath257]

There is no doubt in my mind that Jehovah's way is best. When I was not a Christian I lived the satanic philosophy: "I say to you whoever smites you on the right cheek, smash him on the other, return to him fourfold, aye, a hundred fold"

Now I am living the command to do unto others as you would have them do to you, quite a difference. But you know what? Peace and happiness is a result. I like myself now, and have many more actual friends.

Congratulations on improving morally.

Now, what does belief in a God have to do with that? Could you not simply treat people decently whether or not there is a God? And would you not be equally at peace either way?

The 'satanic philosophy' tends to rebound on the person who takes that attitude, leading to a less happy existence. But, I would also say that the 'theistic philosophy' does as well.

It is much better, I think, to get rid of all the supernatural mythology and simply take responsibility for our own actions and to care about how what we do affects others.

THAT, not pleasing some deity, is the actual basis of morality. at least, that's how I see it.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Of course. In fact my lead in was:
Truth: either God exists or He don't.

I'm less interested in the answer to that question than I am in a different one:

Why is that the lens that we should use when examining the world?

We can come up with all sorts of dichotomies:

- either we're living in the Matrix or we're not.
- either a year is 365.25 days or it isn't.
- either it's Sunday today or it isn't.
- either Australia exists or it doesn't.
- either Babe Ruth was a group of squirrels pretending to be a human or he wasn't.

Why is your dichotomy about God more worthwhile to consider than, say, that last dichotomy about Babe Ruth?

 

[night912]

There is no doubt in my mind that Jehovah's way is best. When I was not a Christian I lived the satanic philosophy: "I say to you whoever smites you on the right cheek, smash him on the other, return to him fourfold, aye, a hundred fold"

Basically what you're saying is that you followed the law of your God?

Exodus 21:23 - 25
23 But if there is serious injury, you are to take life for life, 24 eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, 25 burn for burn, wound for wound, bruise for bruise.

 

[capumetu]

More specifically: either your concept of God describes something that exists or it doesn't.

You are not understanding that Jehovah is only one concept of God: there are many others.

Have you considered the possibility that Jehovah doesn't exist, but some *other* deity does?

When I say God sir, I am referring to Jehovah, otherwise I would say god.

 

[capumetu]

You must have missed the part where I said 'specific evidence.' But, I imagine what you and I consider evidence are different.

Irrelevant to the point sir. The Bible says there are many gods and lords, you actually indicated 2, and I agreed with you, as that is what the Bible really teaches, you are with one or the other, no one is exempt.

 

[Polymath257]

When I say God sir, I am referring to Jehovah, otherwise I would say god.

OK, we know that now. But how would we have known that from your OP? Others might think you are saying God is Allah, or Zeus, or some other envisionment of divinity.

You can't assume that simply because *you* refer to Jehovah when you say 'God' that everyone else does.

 

[capumetu]

My parents are human. They did not create or control the world any more than I did.

Zactly! So how much moreso is your responsibility to the Creator.

 

[capumetu]

Pity. I wonder if that doesn't say something about your character? I mean, I'm an atheist, and I've never once in my life sought to get back at somebody the way that you suggest you did. And I've managed to be at peace with myself, and happy in my life. And I've always managed to like myself, too.

I guess I didn't need an excuse to be a good person.

Perhaps it was the area, and no doubt the circumstances you grew up in. I was in a motorcycle gang, we had the mentality that we could do as we please.

My natural inclination is revenge, yes revenge, not initiating anything, but paying back evil for evil to a greater degree. My life is so much better serving Jehovah, although I have seen individuals like yourself who are decent individuals without Him, I salute you for that sir especially in today's world
(Matthew 24:12) . . .because of the increasing of lawlessness, the love of the greater number will grow cold. . .

 

[PureX]

Zactly! So how much moreso is your responsibility to the Creator.

None. The creator is responsible for it's creation. Not the other way round.

 

[capumetu]

When I was young, my parents (actually, grandparents) had responsibility to me to teach, feed, and keep me healthy. That is the role parents play in many mammalian species.

Do I have responsibility to my parents otherwise? That solely depends on whether I *want* to accept responsibility to them in some way. If they did their duty correctly, I would probably *want* to help them out in their old age.

You know sir, that is a very good point, and that is the reason why people should repay to Jehovah His due, for all He has given us.

 

[capumetu]

Basically what you're saying is that you followed the law of your God?

Exodus 21:23 - 25
23 But if there is serious injury, you are to take life for life, 24 eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, 25 burn for burn, wound for wound, bruise for bruise.

The Law of Jehovah is equality, whereas the law of satan is given with interest

 

[capumetu]

OK, we know that now. But how would we have known that from your OP? Others might think you are saying God is Allah, or Zeus, or some other envisionment of divinity.

You can't assume that simply because *you* refer to Jehovah when you say 'God' that everyone else does.

I agree, however it is an open field for anyone to promote their god, whomever that is

 

[capumetu]

Most religious people seem to believe that without religion humanity will be barbarian.

Leaving aside the wars and persecutions inflicted on others in the name of religion, it assumes that people have no empathy for others if it weren't for religion.

Some animals have empathy for others in their group who are suffering. Are we less than them?

Psychiatrists have a word for someone without empathy: sociopath.

Although you haven't seen the worst of it yet sir, the world even with God is quite barbaric.

 

[capumetu]

Congratulations on improving morally.

Now, what does belief in a God have to do with that? Could you not simply treat people decently whether or not there is a God? And would you not be equally at peace either way?

The 'satanic philosophy' tends to rebound on the person who takes that attitude, leading to a less happy existence. But, I would also say that the 'theistic philosophy' does as well.

It is much better, I think, to get rid of all the supernatural mythology and simply take responsibility for our own actions and to care about how what we do affects others.

THAT, not pleasing some deity, is the actual basis of morality. at least, that's how I see it.

I guess the best way to explain it is to picture the world if everyone was one of Jehovah's witnesses. Can you see the difference? It is very true that most people can, and actually do live peacefully, and do not worship Jehovah.

 

[Polymath257]

I guess the best way to explain it is to picture the world if everyone was one of Jehovah's witnesses. Can you see the difference? It is very true that most people can, and actually do live peacefully, and do not worship Jehovah.

Actually, that sounds terrifying to me. I would hate to have that much uniformity of thought.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I guess the best way to explain it is to picture the world if everyone was one of Jehovah's witnesses. Can you see the difference? It is very true that most people can, and actually do live peacefully, and do not worship Jehovah.

What I got from your story was that you saw immediate benefit from behaving decently to other people... IOW, nothing in your story suggested that behaving decently is only a good idea if God exists.

 

[Wandering Monk]

Irrelevant to the point sir. The Bible says there are many gods and lords, you actually indicated 2, and I agreed with you, as that is what the Bible really teaches, you are with one or the other, no one is exempt.

Thanks for proving my point. Your definition of evidence is 'whatever the Bible says.' Mine definition of evidence is that something must be testable and falsifiable in the scientific sense of those words.

 

[Wandering Monk]

Although you haven't seen the worst of it yet sir, the world even with God is quite barbaric.

Compared to when?