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Trump's Saudi “Policy” Is Based on One Big Lie on Top of Another

Nous

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
And his refusal to exhibit any moral fiber by sanctioning Saudi Arabia over the horrific MbS-engineered torture and killing of US resident journalist Jamal Khashoggi is probably just a ruse to fatten his own pockets by way of unconstitutional foreign emoluments.

To wit:

When President Trump argues that the United States can’t halt arms sales to Saudi Arabia over the Saudis’ alleged murder of journalist and Post contributor Jamal Khashoggi, he’s giving up a key piece of leverage over Riyadh for no reason at all. What’s worse, Trump is also turning one of America’s best strategic assets into a liability, a massive unforced error that could weaken the United States worldwide.

Trump has said repeatedly he doesn’t want to halt -- or even threaten to halt -- U.S. arms sales to the Saudi regime because (he says) it would cost U.S. jobs and hand over a sweet contract to Moscow or Beijing.

“They are ordering military equipment. Everybody in the world wanted that order. Russia wanted it, China wanted it, we wanted it. We got it,” Trump said on “60 Minutes” Sunday. “I don’t want to hurt jobs. I don’t want to lose an order like that.”

Set aside that Trump’s claim of $110 billion of arms sales to Saudi Arabia as announced last year is hugely exaggerated, considering that number mostly refers to deals struck during the Obama administration and new deals that haven’t yet materialized. The significant arms-sales relationship we do have with Saudi Arabia gives us enormous leverage over them, leverage Trump should use to pressure King Salman to reveal what his regime knows about Khashoggi’s disappearance.

Saudi Arabia’s military is already built around U.S. and British defense platforms, meaning they can’t easily switch to Russian or Chinese systems. Riyadh is especially dependent on U.S. arms right now because their bloody war in Yemen requires a constant flow of U.S. munitions, not to mention U.S. intelligence, maintenance and refueling support.

U.S. arms sales are not simply a financial deal or a jobs program; they represent a strategic advantage of the United States. Countries want U.S. Weapons because they are the best. That gives us connections, influence and, yes, leverage over these countries. That’s how arms sales have always worked, until Trump flipped the script.

“The White House seems to be saying that Trump Doctrine is that the U.S. will ignore your human rights abuses, assassinations or war crimes as long as you buy things from us. He’s got it totally and completely backwards,” Sen. Chris Murphy (D-Conn.) told me. “What’s the point of being a military superpower if we lose leverage when we do business with another country?”

“What the president doesn’t realize is that this makes him look weak and small. World leaders will now know they can act with impunity so long as they are buying American weapons. That’s an insane message to send,” Murphy said. “The United States should never be boxed in because of who we sell weapons to -- countries who buy U.S. weapons should feel enormous pressure to stay on our good side.”

Sen. Marco Rubio (R-Fla.) made a similar point Sunday on CNN’s “State of the Union” with Jake Tapper.

“Arm sales are important, not because of the money, but because it also provides leverage over their future behavior,” he said. “You know … they will need our spare parts. They will need our training. And those are things we can use to influence their behavior.”​

Trump has it ‘totally and completely backwards’ on Saudi arms sales

The US is not dependent on Saudi oil. Just the contrary. Oil production in the US is on course to produce “OPEC's worst nightmare”:

In less than a decade, U.S. companies have drilled 114,000 [oil wells in the Permian basin of West Texas and a slice of New Mexico]. Many of them would turn a profit even with crude prices as low as $30 a barrel.

OPEC’s bad dream only deepens next year, when Permian producers expect to iron out distribution snags that will add three pipelines and as much as 2 million barrels of oil a day.

“The Permian will continue to grow and OPEC needs to learn to live with it,’’ said Mike Loya, the top executive in the Americas for Vitol Group, the world’s largest independent oil-trading house.

The U.S. energy surge presents OPEC with one of the biggest challenges of its 60-year history. If Saudi Arabia and its allies cut production to keep prices higher, shale will thrive, robbing them of market share. But because the Saudis need higher crude prices to make money than U.S. producers, OPEC can’t afford to let prices fall.

Cartel Squeezed

So the cartel finds itself squeezed between the-sky’s-the-limit U.S. output and softer demand growth. The 15 members, and allies including Russia, Mexico and Kazakhstan, will discuss the possibility of their second retreat from booming American production in three years when they gather Dec. 6 in Vienna.

OPEC helped create the monster that haunts its sleep. After it flooded the market in 2014, oil prices crashed, forcing surviving U.S. shale producers to get leaner so they could thrive even with lower oil prices. As prices recovered, so did drilling.

Now growth is speeding up. In Houston, the U.S. oil capital, shale executives are trying out different superlatives to describe what’s coming. “Tsunami,’’ they call it. A “flooding of Biblical proportions’’ and “onslaught of supply’’ are phrases that get tossed around. Take the hyperbolic industry talk with a pinch of salt, but certainly the American oil industry, particularly in the Permian, has raised a buzz loud enough to keep OPEC awake.

Price Tumble

“You’ve got an awful lot of production that can come in very economically,’’ said Patricia Yarrington, Chevron Corp.’s chief financial officer. “If you think back four or five years ago, when we didn’t really understand what shale could do, the marginal barrel was priced much higher than what we think the marginal barrel is priced today.’’

That shift makes shale resilient to a price tumble. After touching a four-year high in October, West Texas Intermediate, the U.S. benchmark, has fallen by more than 20 percent.

[. . . ]

By the end of 2019, total U.S. oil production -- including so-called natural gas liquids used in the petrochemical industry -- is expected to rise to 17.4 million barrels a day, according to the U.S. Energy Information Administration. At that level, American net imports of petroleum will fall in December 2019 to 320,000 barrels a day, the lowest since 1949, when Harry Truman was in the White House. In the oil-trading community, the expectation is that, perhaps for just a single week, the U.S. will become a net oil exporter, something that hasn’t happened for nearly 75 years.​

Texas is about to create OPEC's worst nightmare

When the House of Representatives becomes a Democrat-majority body, the US and the world may be able to learn more about Trump's foreign emoluments and thereby his motivations for his devil's pact with Saudi Arabia. Collusion with the Russians during the election? Obstruction of justice? At the moment, there seems to be nothing more important and pressing than discovering exactly the nature and scope of the unconstitutional foreign emoluments that influence Trump.
 

Nous

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
So how is this different than previous adminstrations?
(1) I am unaware of any other President whose foreign policies turned “one of America’s best strategic assets into a liability, a massive unforced error that could weaken the United States worldwide.”

(2) No other President based his foreign policy decisions on the foreign emoluments he received.

In the case of Trump, it's a pretty good guess that (1) is because of (2). Hopefully the American public and the rest of the world will soon be able to discover the nature and magnitude of the unconstitutional foreign emoluments that Trump has so assiduously hidden from the public.
 

YmirGF

Bodhisattva in Recovery
Most of diplomacy is lie upon lie upon lie codified into a document drenched in the blood of victims no one cares about.
 

Nous

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Most of diplomacy is lie upon lie upon lie codified into a document drenched in the blood of victims no one cares about.
If you have any facts relevant to the topic of this thread, be sure to post them.

If you have any facts on another topic, perhaps you will want to start your own thread.
 

YmirGF

Bodhisattva in Recovery
If you have any facts relevant to the topic of this thread, be sure to post them.

If you have any facts on another topic, perhaps you will want to start your own thread.
I'm sorry @Nous it just struck me as odd that you would highlight Trump's inability to be truthful in the realm of diplomacy, which is almost literally the art of learning to smile while telling lies. Enjoy your thread though. :)
 

David T

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
So how is this different than previous adminstrations?
They at least created a fantasy for us that we were above it all!!!!
3
Why he is destroying the secular church,(government) while of course religious extremist whackos want to make it in its own image. Its the meatheads vs archie debate. Both are idiots.

God is great, beer is most excellent dude, and people are crazy. With that i am off to play my geeeeeetar its smater than people.
 

David T

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
(1) I am unaware of any other President whose foreign policies turned “one of America’s best strategic assets into a liability, a massive unforced error that could weaken the United States worldwide.”

(2) No other President based his foreign policy decisions on the foreign emoluments he received.

In the case of Trump, it's a pretty good guess that (1) is because of (2). Hopefully the American public and the rest of the world will soon be able to discover the nature and magnitude of the unconstitutional foreign emoluments that Trump has so assiduously hidden from the public.
Moral fiber and government is an oxymoron. Like compassionist science, or intelligent creationism.

Trump is like a pedofile pope. Meathead is appalled archie is beyond happy.
 
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Kangaroo Feathers

Yea, it is written in the Book of Cyril...
Nice to see so many of the Usual Suspects ready to jump in with their tu quoques and whataboutisms to defend their orange idol.
 

BSM1

What? Me worry?
(1) I am unaware of any other President whose foreign policies turned “one of America’s best strategic assets into a liability, a massive unforced error that could weaken the United States worldwide.”

(2) No other President based his foreign policy decisions on the foreign emoluments he received.

In the case of Trump, it's a pretty good guess that (1) is because of (2). Hopefully the American public and the rest of the world will soon be able to discover the nature and magnitude of the unconstitutional foreign emoluments that Trump has so assiduously hidden from the public.


I've notice you've dodge the question again. How is Trump's policies in SA not a continuation of previous administrations?
 

Kangaroo Feathers

Yea, it is written in the Book of Cyril...
I've notice you've dodge the question again. How is Trump's policies in SA not a continuation of previous administrations?
Which was the last administration to take the Saud's word over that of their own intelligence service? Which was the last administration to essentially handwave the kidnapping and murder by torture of an American resident?

If no such previous administration comes to mind, congratulations, you have your answer re: differences.
 

BSM1

What? Me worry?
Which was the last administration to take the Saud's word over that of their own intelligence service? Which was the last administration to essentially handwave the kidnapping and murder by torture of an American resident?

If no such previous administration comes to mind, congratulations, you have your answer re: differences.

Still dodging the question. How does our policy now toward SA differ than it did in previous administrations?
 

Kangaroo Feathers

Yea, it is written in the Book of Cyril...
Still dodging the question. How does our policy now toward SA differ than it did in previous administrations?
Deliberately pretending not to understand a plain answer doesn't make Trump's behaviour in this tragedy any less despicable. If you are interested in a good faith discussion, I'll ask you not to be obtuse, please.
 
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BSM1

What? Me worry?
Deliberately pretending not to understand a plain answer doesn't make Trumps behaviour in this tragedy any less despicable. If you are interested in a good faith discussion, I'll ask you not to be obtuse, please.

But you haven't given a valid answer; you've simply use this as an excuse to attack Trump. Please tell how our foreign policy toward SA is any different from the last half dozen administration...that's all I'm asking.
 

Father Heathen

Veteran Member
Don't you see, guys? Dishonest, immoral, and unethical behavior is only a concern when it's the other party.

Trump could set a basket of kittens on fire and his legion of bootlicking bumpkins would convince themselves that those kittens had it coming.
 

james dixon

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Trump publicly stated that he likes the Saudi’s because they paid $$millions for a few of his office sites.

Trump comes first; our integrity and national security come third or fourth in his way of thinking

Oh, so sad but true
 
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