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Featured Trump's at it again

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by pcarl, Dec 6, 2017.

  1. pcarl

    pcarl Well-Known Member

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    Trump is to decide whether to acknowledge Jerusalem as the capital of Israel by moving
    the U S embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem.
     
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  2. Quetzal

    Quetzal A little to the left and slightly out of focus.
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    I don't agree with this move. It is pretty volatile down there and this will only make things worse.
     
  3. Stevicus

    Stevicus Well-Known Member
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    It does seem rather ill-conceived. I was just reading an analysis of the move in this article: Recognizing Jerusalem as Israel's capital is a dangerous gambit (Opinion) - CNN

    Of course, as an agnostic, all of this talk about "sacred ground" seems rather silly to me. It also seems contradictory and hypocritical from a religious point of view, since the major religions tout themselves as having an aversion to the worship of "idols" and "graven images," and yet, here they are fighting over idols. As if God really cares about this kind of stuff...

    Trying to figure out what the Administration's strategy is on anything is a daunting process.

    The one thing that strikes me about this is that the "peace process" has been going on for decades, and they don't seem any closer to any kind of permanent "peace in the Middle East" than they were 30-40 years ago. The entire region has been wracked by war for a long time, and nothing we do ever really seems to work.

    White House: Jerusalem embassy move a 'recognition of reality' - CNNPolitics

    It seems the point being made here is that it may not make things any better, but it's hard to say how it could make things even worse.
     
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  4. pcarl

    pcarl Well-Known Member

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    I think Trump's main reason for this disastrous move is to appease his Evangelical supporters, those who wait for the return of all Jews to Israel prior to the Apocalypse. Of course it also speaks to his hatred of Islam.
     
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  5. David T

    David T Well-Known Member
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    Breaking news Constantine wants to move the capitol to Istanbul call it constantinople!!!!
     
  6. metis

    metis aged ecumenical anthropologist

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    As a Jew who has spent some time in Israel, I don't see this as being a smart move as there's really nothing to be gained and quite a bit that we and others could lose. OTOH, it's a shame that moving an embassy to the actual capital of a country is at all controversial.
     
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  7. Jumi

    Jumi Well-Known Member

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    People get way too excited over things that are only symbolic. In reality it makes no difference, but it's a clash of nationalism versus nationalism in the feelings of people there. I expect many innocent people to get killed over this, so it's a bad move.

    On the background for this move must be the thaw between Saudi and Israeli relations.
     
  8. Revoltingest

    Revoltingest Ignorant Atheist Capitalist Libertarian Gearhead
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    Nonetheless, it's a real & deadly problem that people get way to excited over things which are only
    symbolic. This must be taken into account in one's actions. It strikes me that Trump is all about Israeli
    supremacy, & not so much about peace...except for peace resulting from conquering someone.
    What's the benefit in this decision?
    None that I see.
    And it's only taxpayer money wasted in the move.
    There's plenty more where that came from, eh.
     
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  9. Jumi

    Jumi Well-Known Member

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    I agree. That's why it's a bad move.

    Before this move, Aljazeera news talked about Saudis wanting to gain a reliable ally against Iran in Israel. It also talked about how they would like Jerusalem to have less religious importance, so they could gain as Mecca and Medina would have more importance. Their analysis makes sense now with Trump's move. Like the travel ban, it may end up being applauded by Saudis.
     
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  10. Revoltingest

    Revoltingest Ignorant Atheist Capitalist Libertarian Gearhead
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    Americastanian politicians fail to understand something.....
    If they treat Iran as the enemy...attacking, attacking, & more attacking,
    then Iran will indeed be the enemy. I recommend less attacking.
     
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  11. Jumi

    Jumi Well-Known Member

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    America's allies in M-E have a different view.
     
  12. Armoured

    Armoured Active Member

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    I think the easiest option all around is "put the embassy where the Israelis say to put it".

    What's their position on where embassies should be? Anyone think to ask them?
     
  13. Revoltingest

    Revoltingest Ignorant Atheist Capitalist Libertarian Gearhead
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    They have a right to be wrong...& evil.
    But I'd rather that we not cause or enable death & destruction.

    We killed about a million Iranians when we instigated & supported
    Iraq's attacking them. We supplied military assistance, including
    WMDs (biological & chemical weapons). We overthrew their elected
    leader in the 1953 coup.
    Should they be angry & fearful?
    Should they be seeking a much stronger military for self defense?
    You betcha!
    We caused that.
    Time for regime change.....but here this time.
     
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  14. leibowde84

    leibowde84 Veteran Member

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    I think this is a nothing burger that will actually create harm without creating any good. The US has recognized Jerusalem as the capital for decades. And, I believe Trump is not going to announce the moving of the embassy today, just recognition of the capital. So, he is going to anger the Palestinians, ruin any chance of peace negotiations, all without getting anything tangible in return. Another stupid, symbolic, do-nothing move by a President who doesn't care about anything beyond pleasing his ignorant base.
     
  15. YmirGF

    YmirGF Bodhisattva
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    I think it is dangerous due to Muslims, the world over heads collectively exploding, at such recognition. It also gives the middle finger to the UN in it's bid to internationalize the city of Jerusalem. Let's face it, other than the Al-Aqsa mosque which was built to commemorate a dream of Muhammad's, Muslims have no claim to the Israeli capital. That it was built on the rubble of the holiest site in Judaism is just a teeny bit of a slap in the face to Jews and a constant thorn in their side.

    Such a move by the US, to Jerusalem from Tel Aviv, will likely trigger waves of terrorist attacks by followers of the Religion of Peace ®©
     
    #15 YmirGF, Dec 6, 2017
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2017
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  16. Revoltingest

    Revoltingest Ignorant Atheist Capitalist Libertarian Gearhead
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    People make lots'o claims.
    Some are more valid than others, but it all looks rather subjective & emotionally driven here.
    What matters isn't determining which claim rules. (That would be impossible because of
    differing premises. Religion, you know.) The goal should be to find the course of least carnage.
    But this is not Trump's way....or Israel's.
     
  17. sunrise123

    sunrise123 The sea remains the sea whatever the drop thinks
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    Just look at what one of the three plutocratic owners of the Republican party want. In this case, it's Adelson that wants it.

    It can always be worse. I expect more attacks on America and Americans, more attacks on Israel and of course the rest of the world looking at the USA as a bunch of pathetic losers and has-beens.
     
  18. Stevicus

    Stevicus Well-Known Member
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    Well I suppose we can always get worse too. If we took the gloves off and used all the firepower available in our massive arsenal, we could end all problems in the ME overnight. Not that I'm proposing that, but we can always get meaner, if that's what they want from America.
     
  19. YmirGF

    YmirGF Bodhisattva
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    Nor has it been the way of the so-called "Palestinians" who have elected two different terrorist organizations to represent them at the negotiating table.
     
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  20. Saint Frankenstein

    Saint Frankenstein Dream Brother
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    Even a broken clock is right twice a day. I don't see what the problem is. Of course some are going to be angry but it's not like the fabled two-state concept is going anywhere. At this point, I'm fine with a one-state solution with Jerusalem as its capital. I wouldn't like to see Jerusalem split, personally.
     
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