Trump Supporters: Where do you draw the line?

[Watchmen]

Thanks. Hypothetically, would it be appropriate if Trump pardoned someone who was convicted of obstructing an FBI investigation into the President?

This is the type of thing I am talking about. I am not asking if Trump supported liberal policies like the Green New Deal, would you support him. I am asking what could Trump do in service of your agenda that would cross the line?

I have asked for 3-4 examples. With my help, I consider that you have provided 1 example so far.

Thanks for your help. Hypothetically, would it be appropriate? I don’t know. Would depend on the situation. The very act of pardoning is overturning a conviction, and all presidents have done so.

Do you have a third hypothetical?

 

[Mr Spinkles]

Thanks for your help. Hypothetically, would it be appropriate? I don’t know. Would depend on the situation. The very act of pardoning is overturning a conviction, and all presidents have done so.

Do you have a third hypothetical?

As I mentioned in the OP: what if he clearly loses the election, and refuses to accept the results?

 

[Watchmen]

As I mentioned in the OP: what if he clearly loses the election, and refuses to accept the results?

I would not support that. He should concede if he “clearly loses.”

 

[Mr Spinkles]

Thanks for your help. Hypothetically, would it be appropriate? I don’t know. Would depend on the situation. The very act of pardoning is overturning a conviction, and all presidents have done so.

Under what situation would it be acceptable, for example?

 

[Mr Spinkles]

I would not support that. He should concede if he “clearly loses.”

Thanks - good to know.

 

[Watchmen]

Under what situation would it be acceptable, for example?

I don’t know. Hypothetically, maybe pardoning a terrorist mastermind who was responsible for hundreds of bombings that killed and severely injured many individuals. Or, hypothetically, pardoning a soldier who was convicted of disclosing thousands of classified or other sensitive docs.

 

[Mr Spinkles]

I don’t know. Hypothetically, maybe pardoning a terrorist mastermind who was responsible for hundreds of bombings that killed and severely injured many individuals. Or, hypothetically, pardoning a soldier who was convicted of disclosing thousands of classified or other sensitive docs.

These are examples of things you would find acceptable? I feel like I must be missing something.

 

[Mindmaster]

Consider the following logic:

1. IF you support candidates like Donald Trump because they support your agenda ...

2. ... THEN Democrats might do the same ...

Yeah, I'll kinda stop there. No they won't. They're feelings voters it's doesn't matter what Trump does in the office, just if their poor little feelings are hurt. Since they're so fragile about everything there's not much to do here. They're only marginally slightly better with their own candidates in that they essentially disagree on those too because they're really not all that great in personality either in most cases. (Biden = wood.) But, they're willing only to accept that consolation because that's slightly better than Trump and they'll vote for whoever the party anointed either way. Hey, if I was a leftist myself I still wouldn't vote for Biden -- he's a globalist shill, neo-con, and a perpetual charlatan and liar. You gotta be hating Trump pretty bad to ignore these defects. Trump has defects too, but they're not this overt and at least when he goes out of bounds it's obvious and not him trying to be sneaky. I personally can't even tell you what Joe Biden believes because he goes back and forth about everything anyway and refutes himself constantly. I may like or dislike a factor about Trump, but at least he has integrity of character and he's a known quantity. Whatever Biden says, I guarantee it's meaningless and he's not beyond doing the complete opposite.

 

[Watchmen]

These are examples of things you would find acceptable? I feel like I must be missing something.

No. Examples of what might be unacceptable.

 

[Cooky]

I see you dodged the question of the OP. Do you care to answer it or should I just assume the worst?

You must have misses post #11...?

 

[Samantha Rinne]

Is there anything Trump could do in service of your agenda that you would not support? Is there such a thing as “abuse of power” or “eroding our democracy” in your view even if those things are done to advance your conservative views?

This is the difference between someone who truly puts “America First” vs. someone who is just a blackshirt.

There is such a thing as abuse of power. Look at governor Northam. He ignored the state's own laws (which specifically PROHIBIT wearing of masks) in order to change them by executive order. Now the law not only makes no sense in original context but has subverted its context to make something illegal to wear but required to wear (the **** sort or nonsense is that?!?)

An executive order, by the way, should not be a blanket fiat action, but actually support the Bill of Rights (and possibly the Constitution proper and the other amendments). Northam defied this, declaring his executive order at odds with most of the 1st Amendment and 10th Amendment easily, and probably many of the others.

Bill of Rights

Yes, this would be abuse of power.

If Trump ever proposed an executive order that abridged the Bill of Rights, yes this is also abuse of power. For example, if he said that it is "illegal not to believe in God" (an actual Vermont law) because we are a Christian nation. And made an executive order to this effect. Ditto for saying "New rules, the media can't report anything bad about me." These run afoul of the 1st Amendment. However, it's actually rather hard for a conservative to do that, as they tend to be in favor of the Bill of Rights (unless they're RINOs like George Bush and his Patriot Act).

To be more specific about my political views, while I am a conservative, I do not call myself a Republican.

I am a Log Cabin anarcho-capitalist. Or a minarchist. I believe in my own LGBT rights, and I believe in tiny government. And I believe we should probably to a large portion downsize our own government.

I would probably prefer Trump abolish the current rules and dismantle the country in favor of a much smaller government. Basically just the Bill of Rights, and do away with the three branches of government. If he did that though, he'd stop being my president. Of course, that's self-explanatory (no executive branch).

 

[Twilight Hue]

Trump supporters, and those who routinely defend him on RF: could you please list three or four things that you wouldn’t defend, minimize, or excuse, if Trump did those things?

It seems every time someone starts a thread criticizing Trump for X, a predictable group defends, downplays or changes the topic in some way. So I am curious what X would have to be in order to cross the line and no longer be worthy of defending.

Feel free to be as imaginative and outlandish as you please. After all, who could have predicted all the outlandish things Trump has done up to this point.

What if audio came out where Trump was mocking evangelical Christians in private?

What if he clearly loses the election, and refuses to accept the results?

Surely you can think of something ... you wouldn’t just reflexively defend *anything* he does no matter what ... right?

I want you to be on record before it happens, next time. Thanks.

Sure. I dont agree with major fortune 500 companies paying less tax than someone working at McDonald's. The wealthy ought to pay their fair share of taxes like the rest of us. More than 750 dollars if the allegations are true.

I think illegals upon capture, shouldn't be separated from their children provided they are not employing a 'rent a child*' whom poses as their child as a fair number of them actually and really do.

Trump should focus more on accommodation involving issues and looking more at the art of compromise rather than the art of the deal to break deadlocks and stagnation on a variety of issues.

How about Biden now? For the record?



*Yea. Rent a Child does exist. Like renting a U Haul I suppose.

 

[Father Heathen]

It appears that no amount of corruption or incompetence would sway them to unwrap their lips as long as he continues to tickle their ideological and narrative fantasies.

 

[Yerda]

Trump supporters, and those who routinely defend him on RF: could you please list three or four things that you wouldn’t defend, minimize, or excuse, if Trump did those things?

It seems every time someone starts a thread criticizing Trump for X, a predictable group defends, downplays or changes the topic in some way. So I am curious what X would have to be in order to cross the line and no longer be worthy of defending.

Feel free to be as imaginative and outlandish as you please. After all, who could have predicted all the outlandish things Trump has done up to this point.

What if audio came out where Trump was mocking evangelical Christians in private?

What if he clearly loses the election, and refuses to accept the results?

Surely you can think of something ... you wouldn’t just reflexively defend *anything* he does no matter what ... right?

I want you to be on record before it happens, next time. Thanks.

A couple of tangential and incoherent points.

How many among us have the strength of character to admit that we've been played by a comically obvious conman? It seems that's where drawing a line would lead.

Trump's administration, howlingly awful as it is, hasn't done anything as criminally psychotic as launching wars of aggression against mostly helpless populations like the Bush 2 gang. Yet, we aren't treating his supporters as beyond the pale. Infact W has been thoroughly rehabilitated and the lunatics around him are perfectly respectable members of society who went on to fill important public roles in the years after. It can be exasperating listening to people defend incompetence and maliciousness over and over (mate, I'm Scottish and even I have friends who defend Trump without fail) but it's nothing like arguing with people who insist that killing foreign civilians in incomprehensible numbers is ok, and infact quite proper.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Fair enough. If Trump supports mandatory vaccination, banging on people's doors to enforce this. Ditto for chipping/barcodes or any other transhumanism bull****. If Trump starts passing crazy laws that massively infringe the rights of native citizens. If Trump supports a plan to appease liberals that raises taxes to the point where they make life hard for regular citizens to hold their property. If Trump supports the violence of BLM or Antifa, I don't support him.

In other words, at any point where Trump betrays his base and acts like a liberal, I do not support him.

I also do not support him any time he supports Fauci. That man is a liar and a thief of our civil rights. He should have been booted months ago. We don't need a vaccine, we should ease up on masks and ****ty antisocial behavior. And I'm not strongly for handouts for relief, but people do need it now. What we need more is to get back to work though, which means cutting regulations.

You mean like this?

Having him mock conservatives would not phase me. I personally do not care how he feels about me. I didn't vote for him to be liked. I didn't even vote for him (something liberals fail to understand). I voted against Hillary.

If he fails to accept the election results, btw, I would support him fully. I'm convinced the reason for all these mail-in ballots is not to avoid contamination, but so there will be plenty of time to toss ballots. Also, I think they stole half of his actual presidency on stupid hearings. I'd like to see him get a half-term added in to make the presidency 2022 instead. Trump 2022!

Neither will I blink if he writes a mean tweet or some covfefe somewhere. That's your hangup, not mine.



I definitely would be upset if he stomped on a kitten.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Now your turn! If Biden were caught saying something very off-color like "Those poor saps, I'm going to make it illegal for them to own houses or cellphones or cars. I'm gonna tax them so much they won't be able to afford any of that. And then I'll come into their houses and kill them, and then we're gonna mess their women and sniff them." Would this bring a halt to Biden support? (And yeah, Biden seems to like sniffing women)

He also liked holding up the hands of ahem... 'reformed' klan members.

 

[Mr Spinkles]

No. Examples of what might be unacceptable.

Okay but that wasn’t the question. What would be an example of a pardon you would think is appropriate and not just corruption?

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

I want you to be on record before it happens, next time. Thanks.

This thread has evolved (or stalled) pretty much as expected. Just out of curiosity: What did it serve?

 

[Mr Spinkles]

Yeah, I'll kinda stop there. No they won't. They're feelings voters it's doesn't matter what Trump does in the office, just if their poor little feelings are hurt. Since they're so fragile about everything there's not much to do here. They're only marginally slightly better with their own candidates in that they essentially disagree on those too because they're really not all that great in personality either in most cases. (Biden = wood.) But, they're willing only to accept that consolation because that's slightly better than Trump and they'll vote for whoever the party anointed either way. Hey, if I was a leftist myself I still wouldn't vote for Biden -- he's a globalist shill, neo-con, and a perpetual charlatan and liar. You gotta be hating Trump pretty bad to ignore these defects. Trump has defects too, but they're not this overt and at least when he goes out of bounds it's obvious and not him trying to be sneaky. I personally can't even tell you what Joe Biden believes because he goes back and forth about everything anyway and refutes himself constantly. I may like or dislike a factor about Trump, but at least he has integrity of character and he's a known quantity. Whatever Biden says, I guarantee it's meaningless and he's not beyond doing the complete opposite.

First of all ...

Secondly: you still haven’t answered the question of the OP. Do you plan to do that or should I assume you’ll make excuses for Trump no matter what?

 

[Stevicus]

Trump's administration, howlingly awful as it is, hasn't done anything as criminally psychotic as launching wars of aggression against mostly helpless populations like the Bush 2 gang. Yet, we aren't treating his supporters as beyond the pale.

This is true. Every president seems to have some sort of scandal or area of controversy. Not just Nixon and Watergate, but there was LBJ and Vietnam, not to mention the numerous scandals involving the Reagan Administration (Iran-Contra, James Watt, Edwin Meese, S&L debacle, Wedtech). And some people still think Reagan was a great president. He was known as the Teflon President, since nothing would ever stick to him. Clinton was another Teflon President who seemingly got a pass despite numerous scandals.

Of course, none of this excuses anything Trump has done, and it doesn't mean he's not a bad president. But why would anyone think that any of the previous presidents were any better? At least, with all the opposition Trump is getting from the media and throughout society, we know he's not a Teflon President.

 

[Mr Spinkles]

This thread has evolved (or stalled) pretty much as expected. Just out of curiosity: What did it serve?

It pretty much has gone as expected although I appreciated @Watchmen answering the question.

There are many instances where Trump does something indefensible and the usual gang rushes in to defend, minimize or deflect. This thread serves, at a minimum, to remind us all that those defenses are bankrupt - they would defend him pretty much no matter what.

It’s not that Trump doesn’t sink lower than standard - it’s that they have no standards. Witness this thread.