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Trump Signs Executive Order to Roll Back Clean Power Plan

Saint Frankenstein

Wanderer From Afar
Premium Member
"President Donald Trump signed an executive order Tuesday to roll back former President Barack Obama's Clean Power Plan, a federal rule that was enacted to combat climate change, calling it a "crushing attack on American industry."

"The action I'm taking today will eliminate federal overreach," Trump said at the signing ceremony. "We will put our miners back to work."


"My administration is putting an end on the war on coal," he added. "We’re going to have clean coal, really clean coal."

Trump's Energy Independence Executive Order set out to curtail the Environmental Protection Agency's regulations restricting greenhouse gas emissions derived from coal-fired power plants.

EPA chief Scott Pruitt told ABC's George Stephanopoulos on Sunday that the president was keeping "his promise to the American people."

"We need a pro-growth and pro-environment approach for how we do regulations in this country," Pruitt said. "For too long, we have accepted a narrative that if you're pro-growth, pro-jobs, you're anti-environment. That's not where we have been as a country. We have made tremendous progress on our environment – we can be both pro-jobs and pro-environment. The executive order will address the past administration's effort to kill jobs throughout the country through the Clean Power Plan."

(MORE: EPA Chief Claims Carbon Dioxide Is 'Not a Primary Contributor to Global Warming')

Earlier this month, Pruitt said in an interview that he didn't believe that carbon dioxide was a "primary contributor to global warming" – an opinion which runs contrary to the beliefs of the vast majority of climate scientists.

The White House had earlier announced its intention to defund the Clean Power Plan in its 2018 budget proposal, in addition to a 31 percent cut to the EPA's funding.

Environmentalists denounced Trump's executive order, saying that it would jeopardize efforts to address global warming.

"This is an all-out assault on the protections we need to avert climate catastrophe," Rhea Suh, president of the Natural Resources Defense Council said in a statement. "It's a senseless betrayal of our national interests. And it's a short-sighted attempt to undermine American clean energy leadership.""
Rest of article here: Trump Signs Executive Order to Roll Back Clean Power Plan

This is outrageous. How can you be pro-coal and pro-environment at the same time? You can't!

The truth is that people need to accept that America is a post-industrial nation. Instead of trying to live in the past and propagandize crap about "bringing back America's manufacturing" and dirty energy jobs, we should be happy that those things are gone and adjust our economic and political realities accordingly. The government should be throwing money at developing new energy sources, not trying to keep us locked into the environment and health destroying sources of the past. I'd rather they build high-tech nuclear power plants and put people to work there in the interim than putting them back in mines or to work fracking, poisoning themselves, our air and our water.
 

Quetzal

A little to the left and slightly out of focus.
Premium Member
"The action I'm taking today will eliminate federal overreach," Trump said at the signing ceremony. "We will put our miners back to work."
My first thought: why? We didn't enact executive orders to retain carriage drivers when the automobile became a thing. We didn't hold back progress in the way of mobile computers. This growing pain needs to happen.
 

Mindmaster

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Leaving most of that aside, what the blue **** is "clean coal, really clean coal"?


Actually, yes...

Some coal burns cleaner (even cleaner than wood), and there are also technologies which remove the contaminates as well. Honestly, I think this has less to do with encouraging coal use for heat/power and more to do with recovering the steel industry. (Coal is a major component of steel making as well..) So basically, if you open up coal you open up steel. I'm sure it is no coincidence... You can't make anything here on a large scale if you don't make steel, it's really that simple.

Just like gasoline, coal is a reliable fuel and it's the emissions that are the problem. Technology can solve that if we tried, and some of those techs are already there.
 

Guy Threepwood

Mighty Pirate
"President Donald Trump signed an executive order Tuesday to roll back former President Barack Obama's Clean Power Plan, a federal rule that was enacted to combat climate change, calling it a "crushing attack on American industry."

"The action I'm taking today will eliminate federal overreach," Trump said at the signing ceremony. "We will put our miners back to work."


"My administration is putting an end on the war on coal," he added. "We’re going to have clean coal, really clean coal."

Trump's Energy Independence Executive Order set out to curtail the Environmental Protection Agency's regulations restricting greenhouse gas emissions derived from coal-fired power plants.

EPA chief Scott Pruitt told ABC's George Stephanopoulos on Sunday that the president was keeping "his promise to the American people."

"We need a pro-growth and pro-environment approach for how we do regulations in this country," Pruitt said. "For too long, we have accepted a narrative that if you're pro-growth, pro-jobs, you're anti-environment. That's not where we have been as a country. We have made tremendous progress on our environment – we can be both pro-jobs and pro-environment. The executive order will address the past administration's effort to kill jobs throughout the country through the Clean Power Plan."

(MORE: EPA Chief Claims Carbon Dioxide Is 'Not a Primary Contributor to Global Warming')

Earlier this month, Pruitt said in an interview that he didn't believe that carbon dioxide was a "primary contributor to global warming" – an opinion which runs contrary to the beliefs of the vast majority of climate scientists.

The White House had earlier announced its intention to defund the Clean Power Plan in its 2018 budget proposal, in addition to a 31 percent cut to the EPA's funding.

Environmentalists denounced Trump's executive order, saying that it would jeopardize efforts to address global warming.

"This is an all-out assault on the protections we need to avert climate catastrophe," Rhea Suh, president of the Natural Resources Defense Council said in a statement. "It's a senseless betrayal of our national interests. And it's a short-sighted attempt to undermine American clean energy leadership.""
Rest of article here: Trump Signs Executive Order to Roll Back Clean Power Plan

This is outrageous. How can you be pro-coal and pro-environment at the same time? You can't!

The truth is that people need to accept that America is a post-industrial nation. Instead of trying to live in the past and propagandize crap about "bringing back America's manufacturing" and dirty energy jobs, we should be happy that those things are gone and adjust our economic and political realities accordingly. The government should be throwing money at developing new energy sources, not trying to keep us locked into the environment and health destroying sources of the past. I'd rather they build high-tech nuclear power plants and put people to work there in the interim than putting them back in mines or to work fracking, poisoning themselves, our air and our water.

A great victory for science the method, over science the political agenda
 

siti

Well-Known Member
A great victory for science the method, over science the political agenda
Does this mean you'll be nominating Donald Trump and Scott Pruitt for a Nobel Prize? For what? Have they invented a cost-effective way of producing "clean coal" that does not make it one of the more expensive energy options? In any case, if your argument is that Trump's decision is based on the supposed 'lack of scientific evidence' for anthropogenic (carbon emission) global warming and CO2 emissions are not a genuinely scientific environmental concern, why is 'clean' coal so important to Mr. Trump - science or politics?
 

Guy Threepwood

Mighty Pirate
Does this mean you'll be nominating Donald Trump and Scott Pruitt for a Nobel Prize? For what? Have they invented a cost-effective way of producing "clean coal" that does not make it one of the more expensive energy options? In any case, if your argument is that Trump's decision is based on the supposed 'lack of scientific evidence' for anthropogenic (carbon emission) global warming and CO2 emissions are not a genuinely scientific environmental concern, why is 'clean' coal so important to Mr. Trump - science or politics?

Soot particulates are a real concern, they are literally dirty, and the cool the atmosphere which we do not need

CO2 or Carbon itself is not 'dirty', unless we are 'dirt based lifeforms' I think it is largely the name that confuses people over this
 

siti

Well-Known Member
Soot particulates ... are literally dirty ...
CO2 or Carbon itself is not 'dirty', unless we are 'dirt based lifeforms' I think it is largely the name that confuses people over this
Ah! I see! You don't know what 'clean coal' means. - or what soot is for that matter. I think its more than just a name that has confused you. I wonder if Mr Trump has a better grasp of the concepts (or the cost)?

Dear RF management - we seriously do need some more facepalm type emojis for these discussions.

For the record, 'clean coal' often has nothing to do with the quality of the coal used - in fact they often use lignite or brown coal (produces more CO2 per unit energy produced than bituminous coal) - it is to do with the technologies they use to convert the coal into cleaner burning gas for power production and then the technologies they use to capture and sequester the CO2 produced in the entire process. It is - up to now at least - a rather costly way of producing power.
 
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MrMrdevincamus

Voice Of The Martyrs Supporter
I am with Trump with this one. I used to be so green I was an activist. Here in Appalachia there are old growth forests, a couple decades ago they were going to be opened up for logging. Some of the redheds around here began spiking trees as well as doing other stupid **** (seen from a perspective of age), making it unprofitable to cut and log. Fast forward to today. I am still somewhat green but not fanatical about it. I don't think there is enough evidence to prove anthropogenic global warming. I am for clean coal technology, I'm for nuclear power plants*, I also am interested in passive and active solar and alternative power but only after more research etc etc. What this nation needs desperately now is to strengthen itself for the coming hard times. That includes economic military getting our power grid hardened and more. I believe we will need all the above and more to survive without extreme hardship or worse. Oh, I almost forgot Member Siti has the most accurate assessment/definition of clean coal IMO.

Nuclear power plants ; I 'only just' am pro nukes. I would be a cheerleader for them if (1)...The designs were all standardized. (2).... The cooling and emergency shut down water supplies were gravity fed, making melt down impossible. There are others but my brains RAM is being overwhelmed by hamburger and fries thoughts ~

: {>
 
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VioletVortex

Well-Known Member
I knew what Trump was all along...a puppet. I've lost all respect for him, and this just inflames the problem. I don't think that fossil fuels are as bad for the environment as liberals make them out to be, but still, it is ****ing disgusting that people just don't care. The level of oil and coal based pollution society is putting out is increasing continuously, it will become a problem in a decade or so.

I think that all new business should be required to install solar panels into their buildings, and derive at leas half of their power from those panels. Solar energy is the best way to obtain electricity. For cars, sure, I'm fine with oil. Cars put out a negligible amount of pollution when compared to power plants.
 

Akivah

Well-Known Member
"President Donald Trump signed an executive order Tuesday to roll back former President Barack Obama's Clean Power Plan, a federal rule that was enacted to combat climate change, calling it a "crushing attack on American industry."

"The action I'm taking today will eliminate federal overreach," Trump said at the signing ceremony. "We will put our miners back to work."

"My administration is putting an end on the war on coal," he added.

Sweet! Trump is really doing some good works. The environmentalists aren't just against coal, they're against every single known energy source. It's good that Trump is taking strong action for our economy.
 

columbus

yawn <ignore> yawn
Sweet! Trump is really doing some good works. The environmentalists aren't just against coal, they're against every single known energy source. It's good that Trump is taking strong action for our economy.
Hey I know!
The buggy whip industry never relocated to foreign countries! Maybe with some tweets and government help we could reinvigorate the industry and create great jobs.
The middle class Trump supporters will love it.
Tom
 

MrMrdevincamus

Voice Of The Martyrs Supporter
I knew what Trump was all along...a puppet. I've lost all respect for him, and this just inflames the problem. I don't think that fossil fuels are as bad for the environment as liberals make them out to be, but still, it is ****ing disgusting that people just don't care. The level of oil and coal based pollution society is putting out is increasing continuously, it will become a problem in a decade or so.

I think that all new business should be required to install solar panels into their buildings, and derive at leas half of their power from those panels. Solar energy is the best way to obtain electricity. For cars, sure, I'm fine with oil. Cars put out a negligible amount of pollution when compared to power plants.

I don't want to live in a USA where the federal government has the kind of power you are speaking of. Citizens should demand the states rights proposed before the Civil War be enacted. Then each state could decide issues by referendum what kind of world they wanted to live in. Each states laws would reflect the desires of its people because each important contested issue would be decided by popular vote. We would actually have a government for the people by the people. We could see that each vote made a difference. Contrast that to what we have now. A bloated spend crazy federal government controlled by corporate bribes. A centralized group of power-brokers that is insulated and distanced from its people so greatly that saying our vote counts is a joke.

As for electrical power etc the way ahead isn't solar. At least not until the technology is developed to the point of generating more power per sq ft per vs time etc. Sunlight has enough energy density, but the cost remains too high over the life of the panel compared to other systems. Its best used for new construction where ultra insulation and passive solar can enhance the panels. Trump is doing the right thing if he can just control his strange emotional quirks before he gets the other nuts in an frenzy and causes problems with the vaporization of worlds. ~

God bless all and peace to all mankind ~


; { >
 

columbus

yawn <ignore> yawn
I don't want to live in a USA where the federal government has the kind of power you are speaking of. Citizens should demand the states rights proposed before the Civil War be enacted. Then each state could decide issues by referendum what kind of world they wanted to live in.
Since you don't live in the USA I can understand why you don't understand how wrong you are.
If we still had such states rights we might well still have slavery.
Tom
 

MrMrdevincamus

Voice Of The Martyrs Supporter
Since you don't live in the USA I can understand why you don't understand how wrong you are.
If we still had such states rights we might well still have slavery.
Tom

I suppose the way I rote my reply it sounded like I was not a citizen, but I am a USA citizen my dad is a naturalized citizen (France). Anyway, I would want guidelines of course the Constitution would still be valid. It might no it WOULD be difficult, maybe that is why it hasn't been done yet? I just despise big government.
 
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