Curious George
Veteran Member
There is most certainly a right to worship as you choose.
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Trump 'order's all houses of worship open.
- Thread starter Wandering Monk
- Start date
There is most certainly a right to worship as you choose.
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber
The safety and welfare of the general public is also there. Right now, that means no one should be able in a poorly ventilated/indoors people box inless they absolutelyhave to. They aren't safe.
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber
It is restricted it many cases amd circumstances.
Oh, you get it, alright. Just the very fact that you mention the "collection plate" says you have quite a clear notion.
InChrist
Free4ever
It is no more a high risk activity or putting others at risk than going to Walmart, Lowe’s, the grocery store or restaurant.
InChrist
Free4ever
Not all churches pass collection plates.
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber
Restaurants have been closed to dine in. Grocery stores are a necessity. Home repairs are a necessity. Going to church is not. People are doing just fine with social media.
Wandering Monk
Well-Known Member
Tell it to the Mormons.
I think Trump is doing an abysmally stupid and dangerous thing. That, to me, is hardly surprising.
But part of the reason I think it's so abysmally stupid and dangerous isn't actually Trump's fault -- it's ours. I've been watching some news videos over the last couple of days, of places opening up. For example, here in Ontario, it's planting season, so we've allowed nurseries and plant stores to open up -- with "social distancing" of course. But when I watch the videos of these place -- right here, where I call home and am usually so proud of -- I see people without masks, jostling up against one another and essentially ignoring the fervent pleas of store owners to please stay well apart.
I go to grocery stores, and patiently wait until somebody has finished selecting which cereal they want, rather than squeeze by them -- but I notice a lot of other people who just don't care, or don't know, or whatever.
Look at the videos of whatever beaches in the US have opened, and tell me that you see people behaving appropriately -- you don't!
So, does anybody really think that congregations aren't going to be singing and halleluha-ing at the tops of their voices (and spraying the air with their little infected water drops)? Hah! It is to laugh.
This will lead to no good -- and you can take that to the bank!
But part of the reason I think it's so abysmally stupid and dangerous isn't actually Trump's fault -- it's ours. I've been watching some news videos over the last couple of days, of places opening up. For example, here in Ontario, it's planting season, so we've allowed nurseries and plant stores to open up -- with "social distancing" of course. But when I watch the videos of these place -- right here, where I call home and am usually so proud of -- I see people without masks, jostling up against one another and essentially ignoring the fervent pleas of store owners to please stay well apart.
I go to grocery stores, and patiently wait until somebody has finished selecting which cereal they want, rather than squeeze by them -- but I notice a lot of other people who just don't care, or don't know, or whatever.
Look at the videos of whatever beaches in the US have opened, and tell me that you see people behaving appropriately -- you don't!
So, does anybody really think that congregations aren't going to be singing and halleluha-ing at the tops of their voices (and spraying the air with their little infected water drops)? Hah! It is to laugh.
This will lead to no good -- and you can take that to the bank!
Way before that challenge will be the 1200 churches opening up in California even though the Governor dictated otherwise.
InChrist
Free4ever
Maybe because it is a slippery slope and rights and freedoms are lost in increments. Or certain groups are targeted before others.
“First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a socialist.
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.”
Martin Niemöller
That is why it is important to defend the rights the Constitution guarantees. Today it may be religious freedom or assembly or a freedom you don’t care about, but tomorrow it will be a constitutional right that hits you more personally.
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No, I think the only way he could override the governors is if he had the backing of the Supreme Court. I suppose he could try to justify it on the grounds of a national emergency, but it seems incongruous to force open all the churches due to a national emergency.
"It's an emergency! Everyone get to church and start praying!"
If it's that kind of emergency, then I guess we'd really be up the creek.
InChrist
Free4ever
And churches have been closed , too. Now restaurants are starting to open with new policies and precautions, so there is no reason churches should not be able to open and take precautions.
I think it is questionable whether you are qualified to judge if everyone is doing fine with social media.
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Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber
And all those peoe are at risk. Surges are already happening from reopenings. Church is not necessary. People are doing fine with social media alternatives. It puts no one at risk, and is better than nothing.
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber
I went to go make a curbside puckup today. The packed parking lots, people going in and out of stores, it's scarier than Michael Meyers. And were already the worst county in this part of the Valley!
InChrist
Free4ever
Well, people are still flying on closed in airplanes with recirculating ventilation. Precautions are important, but life can’t stay shutdown indefinitely, nor can one hide 100% from a virus.
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber
So? We should all be doing what we can to prevent spreading this.
But, just know, more places WILL now end up like New York.
Father Heathen
Veteran Member
oh, I understand the church's motives. What I don't get are those who insist on endangering themselves and others just to give money to some guy for telling them how single, unwed mommies are whores, how gays are going to hell, how science is the devil's magic, etc.
No, we can't hide, that is certainly true. But it is a lot easier to just be careful, if you only think about it a little bit.
This is not going to be like SARS or MERS -- this spreads too easily between people (and now not so much from surfaces as previously thought). This has the potential to kill millions -- and taking a little care could keep hundreds of millions safer until therapies and vaccines are found, if they can be.
Father Heathen
Veteran Member
What a silly misuse of a quote. Nobody is "coming for" anybody. What they're trying to do is prevent people from making others sick through reckless behavior. You can still pray and listen to sermons. Why does that require packing into some building like sardines?
People keep bring up the constitution, but would you say the 2nd amendment gives me the right to dance down a busy street while wilding firing a gun up into the air? Does the 1st amendment allow me to yell "fire" in a crowded theatre?