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Trump leading Biden in 5 swing states that Biden won in 2020

Evangelicalhumanist

"Truth" isn't a thing...
Premium Member
Your glass is half full, I see.

I have to wonder how well eductaed citizens are. I talkled to an ex-girlfriend over the weekend who is usually well informed but she hadn't heard a lot of the news that has been reported over the summer, and she was flabbergasted what I told her.

Are citizens just poorly informed?

This reveals some of the aims of Trump if he is re-elected. Revenge.

I think, indeed, that perhaps a lot of citizens are miserably informed. It seems that Americans pick sides and stay there, so that Republicans develop migrains listening to MSNBC and Democrats get hives when anywhere close to Fox News. It's very hard for anyone to have a fair view of what's really happening if they won't listen to any source that doesn't tell them what they already think they know.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
The concern increases when one compares the Biden that we saw in the run-up to November 3, 2020, with the Biden that we see today. What you label "his lack of spark" is the result of a mere three years. At issue is not simply the change, but the rate of change.
That concern should matter greatly when weighing
Biden against another Democrat contender for the
party's nomination to run for Prez.
But that concern is moot when comparing him to
Trump, another whose faculties are quickly declining.
And then there's his treasonous failed coup, & a few
other hideous agendas.
 

anna.

but mostly it's the same
I saw a report referencing another question in the op poll asked voters how they would vote IF Trump gets a conviction and the results are switched with Biden winning all the swing states. I can't find that result as there is so much data. That is interesting, but still I have to question the psychology of the swing voter, and why four indictments isn't bad enought to vote for Biden, but a conviction is. He's lost civil trials in his Trump University suit. He lost to E. Gene Carroll. He lost in the current fraud case, and the judge has one more day of testimony before ruling on the degree of the penalty, which likely will mean his business in New York is gone. The conspiracy crimes in Geogria has four parties pleading guilty. Trump's lawyers pleading guilty in a conspiracy involved him directly, and what the evidence will show is the depth of hiw involvement.

So there's about 365 days before the next election and a lot can happen. My curiosity is why anyone opts for Trump given his legal jeopardy, and his more extreme rhetoric. I have to think the swing voter support for Trump is a protest against Biden. How they would vote in the actual election might be for Biden, because that when it counts. But the thing is, we don't know.

I think the only thing going against Biden is his age, and his lack of spark when he makes public appearances. The economy is doing very well. He's still lucid and fairly active, but he does appear more frail, and that won't improve in the next five years. I will say that Trump is showing serious signs of decline. Video clips of recent rallies are incoherent, and he has not been aware where he is a number of times. His court performance yesterday, Monday, was a catastrophe, with him going off on incoherent and irrelevant rants instead of answering questions.


The poll may reflect the current pro-Palestinian anger from some Biden supporters who, a year from now, absent any global situation stemming from Oct 7, will have had enough time to conclude that Biden still is a better choice than Trump who's more pro-Israel than Biden.

I voted for Biden and will again, but even I find it painful at times to listen to him talk, I'd rather read the transcript. For voters who only get their info via video soundbites, this is a hurdle. For voters who won't do enough research to know how much Biden has actually accomplished in office, it's an even bigger hurdle. The Democratic Party needs to power up as if the country depended on it, because it does. Why does it take never-Trumper Republicans and ex-Republicans to do the kind of work the Lincoln Project does? At that inflection, it's as much of a party problem as it is a president problem. Biden has a record of accomplishments bringing the country through mid-and post-pandemic, experience working across the aisle, political acuity, intelligence, and a respect for the Constitution and the rule of law that no one on the GOP side has, and the Democratic Party has to push that all day, every day for the next year.

Trump is cognitively crumbling, rambling about castles and windmills, and yet somehow his base still sees him as a powerful God warrior. There are still two Trump flags flying in close proximity in my neighborhood, and I parked across from this gem at the store the other day, and I live in a CA county that voted for Biden:

IMG_8987.jpeg
 

anna.

but mostly it's the same
@F1fan




I'm not proficient enough in statistics to be able to follow all the analysis regarding the poll's oversampling, perhaps you are?

Also - I agree with this 100%:

The mass media is failing Americans at an incredibly critical juncture for American democracy​

America is a country of over 335 million people — the third most populous in the world after India and China. There’s no way that any U.S. president can have personal relationships with even a millionth of the people that they represent. What Americans see and hear about the Biden-Harris administration is therefore determined in large part by the mass media, which nowadays has very concentrated ownership, meaning just a few companies own most of the media.​
By any objective standard, much of the media is doing a terrible, awful, horrible job of covering politics and keeping Americans informed about what really matters. Folks like James Fallows and Jay Rosen regularly point this out. Political coverage has become very shallow and ratings driven, written by reporters looking primarily through the prism of who’s winning and who’s losing. Sensationalism is in, substance is out — and it’s been that way for a long time.​
We can see the consequences of the fourth estate’s descent into absurdity in these poll results. Consider the following set of questions and responses from the poll, which ask about Biden and Trump’s policies...​



So in the next year, I'm going to be following some select people and groups, and shutting out most of what's considered corporate news, no matter how much they pretend to be neutral, trustworthy, or even not-Fox.
 

Father Heathen

Veteran Member
Trump is cognitively crumbling, rambling about castles and windmills, and yet somehow his base still sees him as a powerful God warrior. There are still two Trump flags flying in close proximity in my neighborhood, and I parked across from this gem at the store the other day, and I live in a CA county that voted for Biden:

View attachment 84390
610HBqo5jqL._AC_SX679_.jpg

What the hell is going on with that gun?
 

We Never Know

No Slack
This is what the USA is facing.

www.nytimes.com

Trump Leads in 5 Critical States as Voters Blast Biden, Times/Siena Poll Finds

Voters in battleground states said they trusted Donald J. Trump over President Biden on the economy, foreign policy and immigration, as Mr. Biden’s multiracial base shows signs of fraying.
www.nytimes.com



I know polling can be unreliable, but this is a frightening set of data. These states rejected Trump in 2020, but now as he faces serious legal jeopardy he is more popular? If citizens elect this guy then America deserves what it gets. Conservatives are like drug addicts who have to hit bottom before they realize they have a problem. Unfortunately they will take the USA, and many gloabl allies, down with them.

Or could this be a way to pressure Biden to drop out and open the door for a more appealing Democrat?
Maybe they are tired of Biden like in 2020 they were tired of Trump.

"he faces serious legal jeopardy he is more popular"

Robin Hood syndrome
 

We Never Know

No Slack
This is what the USA is facing.

www.nytimes.com

Trump Leads in 5 Critical States as Voters Blast Biden, Times/Siena Poll Finds

Voters in battleground states said they trusted Donald J. Trump over President Biden on the economy, foreign policy and immigration, as Mr. Biden’s multiracial base shows signs of fraying.
www.nytimes.com



I know polling can be unreliable, but this is a frightening set of data. These states rejected Trump in 2020, but now as he faces serious legal jeopardy he is more popular? If citizens elect this guy then America deserves what it gets. Conservatives are like drug addicts who have to hit bottom before they realize they have a problem. Unfortunately they will take the USA, and many gloabl allies, down with them.

Or could this be a way to pressure Biden to drop out and open the door for a more appealing Democrat?

Former Obama adviser Axelrod says Biden should consider dropping out of 2024​


 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber
That concern should matter greatly when weighing
Biden against another Democrat contender for the
party's nomination to run for Prez.
But that concern is moot when comparing him to
Trump, another whose faculties are quickly declining.
And then there's his treasonous failed coup, & a few
other hideous agendas.
Yeah. Realistically both men are old enough it's not out of the realm of possibility that both die before the election.
But Trump wants to be an autocrat. Attempting an insurrection he needs put in jail and it made very clear this is America amd we hold these truths self evident that ALL men created equal and that includes the law being applied to sitting presidents with indictments coming as necessary.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber

Former Obama adviser Axelrod says Biden should consider dropping out of 2024​


He really should. Dems should he hanging their heads in shame if they feel he's the best they can do and their best chance against Trump. They need someone at least 30 years younger and with a charisma like Bill or Obama.
 

We Never Know

No Slack

anna.

but mostly it's the same
Well looks like the Democrats had a good night so far, and that helps. They need to keep momentum going.

Democratic KY Governor Beshear has won reelection.
OH's Issue 1 passed, the state constitutional protection of access to abortion and other forms of reproductive health care.
OH also voted to legalize recreational marijuana.
It looks as of now that VA Democrats have retained control of the state senate.
 

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
I saw a report referencing another question in the op poll asked voters how they would vote IF Trump gets a conviction and the results are switched with Biden winning all the swing states. I can't find that result as there is so much data. That is interesting, but still I have to question the psychology of the swing voter, and why four indictments isn't bad enought to vote for Biden, but a conviction is. He's lost civil trials in his Trump University suit. He lost to E. Gene Carroll. He lost in the current fraud case, and the judge has one more day of testimony before ruling on the degree of the penalty, which likely will mean his business in New York is gone. The conspiracy crimes in Geogria has four parties pleading guilty. Trump's lawyers pleading guilty in a conspiracy involved him directly, and what the evidence will show is the depth of hiw involvement.

So there's about 365 days before the next election and a lot can happen. My curiosity is why anyone opts for Trump given his legal jeopardy, and his more extreme rhetoric. I have to think the swing voter support for Trump is a protest against Biden. How they would vote in the actual election might be for Biden, because that when it counts. But the thing is, we don't know.

I think the only thing going against Biden is his age, and his lack of spark when he makes public appearances. The economy is doing very well. He's still lucid and fairly active, but he does appear more frail, and that won't improve in the next five years. I will say that Trump is showing serious signs of decline. Video clips of recent rallies are incoherent, and he has not been aware where he is a number of times. His court performance yesterday, Monday, was a catastrophe, with him going off on incoherent and irrelevant rants instead of answering questions.
The economy is doing well for whom?

It's certainly not doing well where I'm sitting in this neck of the world.
 

F1fan

Veteran Member
The economy is doing well for whom?
The economy is doing well overall. It's doing well for me. Inflation has impacted many lives, but this is a gloabl issue, and not something that a president can magically erase for a nation. The economy has been doing well since 2009, when Obama was elected and began to rebuild after the Great Recession. We have not had a recession despite the pandemic, which is amazing. Unemployment is still at 3.9%, very low.

Many Americans got used to free money from pandemic checks and cheap products, but now many businesses are wanting to cash in by raising prices. Also insurance companies are taking huge losses from the in creasing number of natural disasters, mostly due to climate change, so rates are increasing. Cities have been investing in infrastructure, and as a result house prices are going up andf that means property taxes going up too. So the economy always reacts and tries to squeeze whatever money citizens have. Those doing well can cover the increase, but many feel the squeeze. Capitalism will always seek to squeeze what it can from citizens, and our government should help manage the greed.

One thing Bashir is doing in Ketucky is eliminating sales tax on food. You ask about the economy, so what do republicans offer as a way to help the average citizen?
It's certainly not doing well where I'm sitting in this neck of the world.
What's going on? Any solutions?
 
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