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Trump is accused of betraying the Kurds

Discussion in 'Political Debates' started by Prometheus85, Oct 19, 2019.

  1. Prometheus85

    Prometheus85 Active Member

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    Trump is accused of betraying the Kurds and giving Isis new life after green lighting turkey invasion of northern Syria.



    Basically the US persuaded the SDF Kurds to dismantle defensive positions that deterred Turkey, promising security guarantees in exchange. Then once the SDF Kurds became defenseless, Trump gave Erdogan the green light to invade. Hard to imagine a more sinister sequence of events.

    All those gung-ho right wingers all flying flags about defeating ISIS? Don't you think betraying our #1 fighters against them is a giant di*k move?
     
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  2. Shiranui117

    Shiranui117 Pronounced Shee-ra-noo-ee
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    Any source for this?
     
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  3. Prometheus85

    Prometheus85 Active Member

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  4. Shiranui117

    Shiranui117 Pronounced Shee-ra-noo-ee
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    I see nothing indicating that Trump or the US government told the Kurds to dismantle their defensive positions or promised them security guarantees. As much as I agree we shouldn't leave the Kurds high and dry, your initial claim in the OP is unsubstantiated by the article you posted. Did you see this stated elsewhere?
     
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  5. Nowhere Man

    Nowhere Man Bompu Zen Man with a little bit of Bushido.

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    All you're putting forth is conjecture.
     
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  6. Prometheus85

    Prometheus85 Active Member

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    think it's worth explicitly noting that, at least per the BBC's coverage, it is one of the principal Kurdish groups itself calling Trump's move a betrayal, not an angered third party which is outraged by proxy or whatnot.

    And not without good reason. Syrian Kurdish forces have been a major asset to US goals in the region and have a poor at best relationship with Turkey. They're feeling threatened and rightly so.

    SDF says that agreement with US to drawdown from key positions in N. Syria means that, with Turkey's threat to launch an imminent offensive, it's become "a mechanism of death" that will "displace our people& change the stable & secure region into a zone of... permanent war." As I said,

    Basically the US persuaded the SDF Kurds to dismantle defensive positions that deterred Turkey,
     
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  7. LuisDantas

    LuisDantas Aura of atheification
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    Of course Trump betrayed the Kurds. That has been established by Trump himself.

    What is still in some doubt is whether he understood what he was doing.
     
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  8. Jayhawker Soule

    Jayhawker Soule <yawn> ignore </yawn>
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    Trump is facilitating the ethnic cleansing of the Kurds.
     
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  9. Stanyon

    Stanyon WWMRD?

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    The Kurds oppressed the Arabs and facilitated the arrest, torture, and execution of many people to the Assad regime. The #1 fighters against ISIS appeared to be and still are the Russians.
     
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  10. Prometheus85

    Prometheus85 Active Member

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  11. Prometheus85

    Prometheus85 Active Member

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    Thanks to trump pulling troops out. Turkey gets Syrian Kurd land they wanted for years. Kurdish fighters have to disarm and get out. Russia gains influence. ISIS does what it wants. Trump cancels sanctions on Turkey. Art of the deal!!! If you are Erdogan
     
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  12. Brickjectivity

    Brickjectivity Veteran Member
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    Even the rightest of the right are upset about it. They are displeased. It is a difficult thing to accept in a president.
     
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  13. Mister Emu

    Mister Emu Emu Extraordinaire
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    If the Kurds didn't know it was going to happen, that'd be awful. If we've been telling them that it's going to happen and that they should begin negotiating with Assad and they did nothing...
     
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  14. Salvador

    Salvador RF's Swedenborgian

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    The remnants of ISIS might be a threat to Europe or the Middle East, but now they are not a serious threat to the United States. Hence, the U.S. should let Europe and Middle East nations deal with ISIS.
     
  15. Nanoha

    Nanoha New Member

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    Trump did not "betray" the Kurds. This is a dishonest framing of the issue. At most, he "betrayed" the SDF, who certainly do not represent the Kurds. Could you imagine if every time the media referred to IS, they used the term "the Muslims" instead? So people need to stop using the word "Kurds" to refer to the SDF. Turkey is not fighting against the Kurds but against the SDF, a.k.a. the YPG. The liberals who have been criticizing Trump for wanting to pull out of Syria cannot seem to make up the minds. Whereas several years ago, it was common knowledge among any level-headed person that U.S. presence in the Middle East only fuels the spread of terrorism, now those same people who used to hold to this view are saying that pulling out would worsen the problem.
     
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  16. Augustus

    Augustus the Unreasonable

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    It was reported in basically every media outlet at some point:

    the U.S. had convinced SDF forces in the area to dismantle some of their defenses to show Turkey the groups were not a threat to Ankara.

    Pentagon Slams Turkey Incursion in Syria, Denies Abandoning Kurds


    Before the Turkish offensive, the Kurds had dismantled some fortifications such as berms, trenches and tunnels as a goodwill gesture for a safe-zone agreement meant to stave off a Turkish attack.

    But U.S.-Turkey negotiations on the agreement broke down, leading to Mr. Trump's sudden decision to pull back and leaving the Kurdish forces on their own with weakened fortifications.

    Battle-Hardened Kurds Face Military Imbalance in Turkey’s Syria Offensive

    How naive are you? Airstrikes, shelling and military invasions are not particularly discriminatory when it comes to sorting out the innocent.

    When people are bombing and shelling you, destroying your city, forcing you to become a refugee, executing civilians, etc. I'm sure you would be overwhelmed with gratitude to know that this wasn't a betrayal and that you weren't the target.

    Reports of atrocities emerged over the weekend. A Turkish-backed Arab militia was accused of carrying out summary executions of civilians, with one video showing a man being shot on a roadside. The Syrian Observatory for Human Rights said on Sunday that a Turkish airstrike killed 14 people in a convoy heading to the city of Ras al Ain. A journalist was among the dead, according to the war monitor. SOHR said 64 civilians have been killed since Turkey launched its incursion.

    Exploiting the turmoil, Islamic State militants set off a car bomb in Qamishli on Friday, and another outside a prison in Hassakeh, deeper inside Kurdish-controlled territory, on Saturday...

    The Kurds have said they felt betrayed by the U.S. as civilians came under fire. At least 130,000 civilians, many of them Kurdish residents living on the border, have evacuated and Kurdish officials have said scores have been killed. On Friday, top Kurdish leaders said they had no choice but to enter talks with Russia in an effort to gain security...

    In the shelling incident on Friday, Turkish artillery rounds landed within hundreds of feet of U.S. troops based in a house in the Syrian city of Kobane. U.S. officials initially said they believed the strike was accidental, but on Sunday said it appeared intentional. No U.S. forces were injured in either incident. On Sunday, Mr. Esper described the Turkish firing around Kobane as indiscriminate.

    U.S. Military to Withdraw From Northern Syria
     
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  17. lewisnotmiller

    lewisnotmiller Grand Hat
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    This is based on what?
     
  18. Jose Fly

    Jose Fly Fisker of men

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  19. Wandering Monk

    Wandering Monk Well-Known Member

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    The doves have become hawks. How quickly the tables turn.
     
  20. Shad

    Shad Veteran Member

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    The zone is/was a DMZ. There is no reason to have the fortification if not units are present. Turkey left the agreement first. Trump pulled troops out after Turkey announced it was launching it's military operation. More so the SDF agreed and even boasted about how "secure" the zone was. Now they, the Kurds, are contradicting themselves. In reality those fortification were going to be used to defend against Turkey. The SDF just does not want to admit it.
     
    #20 Shad, Oct 21, 2019
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2019
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