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Featured Trump, forgiveness, and Presbyterianism

Discussion in 'Biblical Debates' started by e.r.m., Jan 18, 2016.

  1. e.r.m.

    e.r.m. Church of Christ

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    After Trump made a bombastic statement of not liking having to ask for forgiveness


    and since he's Presbyterian (to my understanding, Presbyterians believe everyone is already saved by what Jesus has done, you can correct me if I'm wrong).

    my question is, do Presbyterians in general ask for forgiveness or do they not feel the need, since their sins are all forgiven, past present and future?

    I wonder if Trump's statement came partially from his religious beliefs.

    Thank you.
     
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  2. metis

    metis aged ecumenical anthropologist

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    Presbyterians are not of one set of mind as there are both liberal ("United Presbyterian") and more conservative branches. The more liberal branches tend to feel that actions besides belief are very important and one may be judged by God on both. Do they ask God for forgiveness, the answer is yes, and that does not depend on the branch.

    BTW, at a speech yesterday at Liberty University, he read a verse from "Two Corinthians", not "Second Corinthians", so I do have to question if he actually knows much theology at all.
     
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  3. Muffled

    Muffled Jesus in me

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    I attended a Presbyterian church that included a public general confession at every service but I have been in other Presbyterian services that did not. I don't remember what Calvin said about it since Presbyterians tend to be Calvinistic.

    I believe Trump is speaking of his personal relationship which he states is good. I know that at communion there are times when encouraged to privately confess sins, I have nothing to confess. However I think Trump might construe silence on God's part as approval and that is not a healthy assumption.
     
  4. Muffled

    Muffled Jesus in me

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    I don't believe that serves as an indicator. Certainly it is customary to refer to it as Second Corinthians but Two Corinthians says the same thing.
     
  5. Buttercup

    Buttercup Veteran Member

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    I have never in my life heard a Christian refer to the book of Second Corinthians as "Two Corinthians". Two Corinthians implies two people from Corinth, not a second book addressed to the citizens of Corinth. That comment speaks to his ignorance of the bible to me.

    My opinion of Trump's Christianity is that the hospitality that is proposed all through the NT is defiantly ignored by Trump. His declaration that all Muslims should be barred from entering the US is a direct violation of Christian doctrine.

    Hebrews 13: 1 Let mutual love continue. Do not neglect to show hospitality to strangers for by doing that some have entertained angels without knowing it.

    Matthew 25: 35 I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me.

    In the video he says he tries to do good so that he doesn't need to ask for forgiveness. Obviously, he's his own judge and jury. His arrogance rears its ugly head yet once again.
     
  6. metis

    metis aged ecumenical anthropologist

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    Except he's already admitted as such.

    Now, don't get me wrong, whether he does or doesn't means much of nothing to me-- that's his choice.
     
  7. Muffled

    Muffled Jesus in me

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    I believe hospitality ends when it comes to accepting wolves into the flock.

    Ac 20:29 I know that after my departing grievous wolves shall enter in among you, not sparing the flock;
     
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  8. Buttercup

    Buttercup Veteran Member

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    Are you implying that all refugees (Syrians in this case) are criminals, murderers and thieves? Please explain.
     
  9. Muffled

    Muffled Jesus in me

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    He admitted what? I believe it is possible he wouldn't know the Bible very well since that is the state of many Christians but of course there is no indication that he is a Christian other than culturally. Politicians looking for votes from evangelicals tend to conveniently discover their Christianity.
     
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  10. Muffled

    Muffled Jesus in me

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    I believe some are sheep but it isn't easy to tell which is which. The people who did the San Bernardino killing looked like sheep to our security system but turned out to be wolves with sharp teeth.
     
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  11. Buttercup

    Buttercup Veteran Member

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    That's a horribly xenophobic statement to throw out with such carelessness. I'm assuming you don't believe in the adage of innocent until proven guilty. There are millions of Muslims in the US already, should we throw them all out?
    We have mass murders going happening around the US. Every day. We have 'wolves with sharp teeth' all around us, American born and raised.
     
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  12. metis

    metis aged ecumenical anthropologist

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    In an interview, he was asked why he hardly every went to church and yet did so just recently, and he admitted that he doesn't go regularly and is far from any kind of biblical scholar, although I can't remember his choice of words. Again, to me, that's unimportant, but to some others it is.
     
  13. e.r.m.

    e.r.m. Church of Christ

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    Give me a break. Anyone who is a student of God's word refers to it as second Corinthians. Saying two Corinthians is a telltale sign he does not read the Bible with any kind of regularity. He said the Bible is his "favorite" book. His second favorite book, the Art of the Deal, he wrote. He understands the concept of favorite. If his favorite book, he knows so little about, which he allegedly esteems more than the Art of the Deal, that makes him a liar.
     
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  14. e.r.m.

    e.r.m. Church of Christ

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    Two people from Corinth. I love it!
     
  15. e.r.m.

    e.r.m. Church of Christ

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    But he made the claim the Bible is his favorite book. You don't have to be a scholar, but a person for whom the Bible is their favorite book, would know second Corinthians. He also made a bombastic statement "I'm defending Christianity, I don't have to be politically correct.", ignoring 1 Peter 3:15 and Ephesians 5:4, since we've seen what he considers politically incorrect.
     
    #15 e.r.m., Feb 11, 2016
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2016
  16. metis

    metis aged ecumenical anthropologist

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    I really don't take much stock in anything that he may claim.
     
  17. e.r.m.

    e.r.m. Church of Christ

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    Like thousands of muslims cheering the fall of the twin towers?
     
  18. metis

    metis aged ecumenical anthropologist

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    Ya-- good example.
     
  19. Muffled

    Muffled Jesus in me

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    I believe you assume too much.

    I don't believe one needs to wait until one is shot to determine if the person is guilty of shooting. Crime prevention and security means stopping what is likely before it happens.

    I believe we are in a war. IN WWII we put recent German and Japanese immigrants in camps to keep them from being a fifth column. I believe we are handling this differently by watching for signs that some are being radicalized.

    I believe we used to lock up the insane but now we don't. At least we should keep them from buying guns.
     
  20. Muffled

    Muffled Jesus in me

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    I believe there are many who believe their spirituality is personal and should not be shared. This is contrary to what Jesus wants. Since some people want to know then it behooves politicians to accommodate them.
     
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