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Trump: "Did nothing wrong, there are no charges against him."

Discussion in 'North American Politics' started by Sapiens, Aug 22, 2018.

  1. idav

    idav Being
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    If your savvy enough you can lie under oath but doesn’t make it right just being able to get away with it and not always legal either. Your op is promoting the saying “it’s only illegal if you get caught”, may be true technically but not in reality.
     
  2. Ellen Brown

    Ellen Brown Well-Known Member
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    Agreed. His reign in office has been painful, and frightening.
     
  3. sayak83

    sayak83 Well-Known Member
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    My question is. Why was there no talk of impeaching Bush II during the 2nd term?
    I am trying to gauge what is the barometer that decides that a president is unfit for office.
     
  4. Sapiens

    Sapiens Polymathematician

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    It requires, at a minimum, control of the House by the opposing party.
     
  5. Ellen Brown

    Ellen Brown Well-Known Member
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    There was some talk about impeaching him, but it did not get traction.
     
  6. sayak83

    sayak83 Well-Known Member
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    So it is possible to get into a situation that no matter the quality of the president, he/she can be impeached if the opposition is in control of the House?
     
  7. Sapiens

    Sapiens Polymathematician

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    Then there is the fact that Melania Trump undertook paid work while in the United States on a tourist visa, she definitely violated her status, and if it came to immigration’s attention, they certainly could put her into removal proceedings. In fact, Ms Trump's citizenship could still be revoked on the grounds that she willfully misrepresented or concealed facts relevant to her naturalization. Would Baron be placed with his Grandparents, who are now U.S. Citizens by the "Chain Migration" rules that Donald Trump so hates, or would they too be deported because of Melania's fraud? If Melania and her parents were deported and the older Trump children were all in Jail ... would Baron be put into the child protective system like a poor Guatemalan?

    Quite a family, eh?
     
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  8. Sapiens

    Sapiens Polymathematician

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    From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Impeachment in the United States is the process by which the lower house of a legislature brings charges against a civil officer of government for crimes alleged to have been committed, analogous to the bringing of an indictment by a grand jury. At the federal level, this is done by the House of Representatives. Most impeachments have concerned alleged crimes committed while in office, though there have been a few cases in which officials have been impeached and subsequently convicted for prior crimes.[1] The impeached official remains in office until a trial is held. That trial, and their removal from office if convicted, is separate from the act of impeachment itself. Analogous to a trial before a judge and jury, these proceedings are (where the legislature is bicameral) conducted by upper house of the legislature, which at the federal level is the Senate.

    At the federal level, Article I, Section 2, Clause 5 of the Constitution grants to the House of Representatives "the sole power of impeachment", and Article I, Section 3, Clause 6 grants to the Senate "the sole Power to try all Impeachments". In considering articles of impeachment, the House is obligated to base any charges on the constitutional standards specified in Article II, Section 4: "The President, Vice President, and all civil Officers of the United States shall be removed from Office on Impeachment for, and conviction of, Treason, Bribery, or other High Crimes and Misdemeanors".[2] (Full text of clauses Wikisource has information on "Constitution of the United States of America" )

    Impeachment can also occur at the state level. Each state's legislature can impeach state officials, including the governor, in accordance with their respective state constitution.
     
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  9. Ellen Brown

    Ellen Brown Well-Known Member
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    She was a model and they travel all over the world so it is my guess that she did not intentionally break the law because she was just going where the agency sent her. Besides, Donald is the Mafia boss, not her. I don't wish her any trouble.
     
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  10. Sapiens

    Sapiens Polymathematician

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    She's still an officer of the criminal Trump Foundation and a tax cheat along with her husband (joint return I'm told) and, thankfully, is likely to wind up with at least a short prison term unless she turns state's evidence. Anyway, ignorance of the law is no excuse.
     
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  11. ecco

    ecco Well-Known Member

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    That's a very interesting observation. I'll have to think long and hard before commenting.
     
  12. tytlyf

    tytlyf The Mind's Eye

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    Impeachment is a political tactic. Republicans controlled both houses until 2006. Then democrats took over both houses after the WMD lie, Iraq botch and the failed hurricane Katrina response.

    Even Donald supported impeaching GWB.

    Political TV Ad Archive » PolAd_DonaldTrump_4k1ia
     
    #32 tytlyf, Aug 23, 2018
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2018
  13. Sapiens

    Sapiens Polymathematician

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    Why are Trump and Juliani worried about a "perjury trap"? Aside from the easy way out, e.g. just tell the truth ... they both maintain that the President can not be indited. That makes it an entirely toothless trap.
     
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  14. Ellen Brown

    Ellen Brown Well-Known Member
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    I wanted the war monger Bush prosecuted for his acts in Iraq, but was told that a President can not be prosecuted for acts committed while President. I gave up because I was so happy to have him gone.
     
  15. Falvlun

    Falvlun Earthbending Lemur
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    I think the argument only applied to acts committed in capacity of the Presidency. This somewhat makes sense to avoid prosecution of political differences. But if the President goes and shoots a man on 5th Avenue, I don’t see how he could be shielded from prosecution.
     
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  16. tytlyf

    tytlyf The Mind's Eye

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    The 'perjury trap' line is a distraction. A new conspiracy pushed by RW media entertainment. They like to tell their audience that the FBI will find Donald guilty if he lies or not. It's a TARP!

    Donald won't testify because his lawyers know he'll screw up. That's what he does.
     
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  17. Shad

    Shad Veteran Member

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    No innocent until proven guilty. Also guilt by association is fallacious.
     
  18. metis

    metis aged ecumenical anthropologist

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    I agree, but it doesn't look good for Trump right now based on what's been coming out, plus what his reaction has been. "If it looks like a duck, acts like a duck, and quacks like a duck, there's a good chance it's a duck."
     
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  19. 'mud

    'mud ~~ Life is Stuff ~~
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    What we have here now is a nest of quacking ducks,
    and Mueller is the fox, or what that was, was chickens !
    Where's the boiling water, and the axe !
     
  20. Shad

    Shad Veteran Member

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    Affirming of speculation.
     
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