Trump Blindness Syndrome (TBS)

[Mr Spinkles]

I would view it as self righteousness with a bit of trolling for flair.

This appears to be projection. Any response to the detailed examples laid out in posts #13 and 15 or do you intend to downplay, dismiss, and critique the criticism, in keeping with TBS?

 

[Mr Spinkles]

Reminds me of more point:
-The Kings Court has often claimed things loke "hes just thinkng out loud" or "hes just joking" when Trump said something stupidly dangerous and potentially deadly. And then Trump said he isn't. But he still is according to many Trumpeters.

This is a good point. It also ties into the strategy of putting words into Trump’s mouth on his behalf.

Remember when Trump altered a hurricane map with a sharpie? The King’s Court (nice phrase, btw) said he was obviously just doodling, etc. But that’s not what Trump said. Trump denied that he even did it!

It reminds me of an indulgent parent, defending the behavior of a spoiled child in ways that the child doesn’t even agree with - but will take.

 

[Harel13]

Does this thing go with Biden Blindness Syndrome (BBS)?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

This is a good point. It also ties into the strategy of putting words into Trump’s mouth on his behalf.

Remember when Trump altered a hurricane map with a sharpie? The King’s Court (nice phrase, btw) said he was obviously just doodling, etc. But that’s not what Trump said. Trump denied that he even did it!

It reminds me of an indulgent parent, defending the behavior of a spoiled child in ways that the child doesn’t even agree with - but will take.

I did forget about it.

Does this thing go with Biden Blindness Syndrome (BBS)?

To do a quick review of the things being criticized here that you have just done.

• Denying

• Downplaying

• Dismissing

• Equivocating

• Selective outrage

• Critiquing the criticism**

• Whitewashing

• Whataboutism

• Sugarcoating

• False equivalence

• Willful ignorance

• Interpreting as a joke

• Interpreting as a single event in a vacuum (not part of a pattern)

• Undeserved benefit of the doubt (similar to above)

• Putting words in Trump's mouth ("what he meant to say was ...")

• Blaming the victim ("If you listen to him, you're an idiot")

• ... and more?

So nice of you to play along do exactly what this thread is singling out.

 

[Mindmaster]

I think we need a word for this. It's when a person refuses to acknowledge Trump's countless failings, or views them through a biased prism, or normalizes Trump's behavior as being just like any other politician - therefore unworthy of note, or concern.

Should we call it Trump Blindness Syndrome (TBS)? Is there a better term for it?

I digress that the left still can't meme...

Trump is a person with faults as every single one of us equally has in spades, and the only difference is his are on blast and everyone else's are largely ignored. That doesn't make them a bigger deal than anyone else's unless through his action they are proven to be detrimental to the function of the job. I haven't seen it, so I don't think any of these things matter.

Next, up... On the job related front no President was likely as committed to peace as Trump is and I'm down with that. _REALLY_ down with that... You pick it... Attempting to deescalate the Middle-East situation is a power-move for world peace. Attempt to ease tensions with North Korea is a big deal. He's also the only one that has worked toward downsizing government a move which I also 100% support.

So, can I get past his personal flaws and be cool with what he does ON THE JOB? Yes. Do I like him personally? Absolutely not. But, that's not what I vote for. His ego is amazing, but my ego isn't getting in my way of seeing the value/net positive.

All of the things you have mentioned are his own personal personality flaws and whatnot and have nothing to do with me or anyone else. That's your problem, not his, essentially... Anyone who wasn't stuck on their own ego-delusions of the situation would just look at metrics related to his work, and then make their decision based on whether he's doing the thing.

I mean do you have to know the personal views or be adoring of someone who serves you a cheeseburger at a fast food joint? That's exactly how I look at it. As long as he is doing the job, I absolutely don't care about what goes on in his personal space even if it's on blast.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Trump is a person with faults as every single one of us equally has in spades, and the only difference is his are on blast and everyone else's are largely ignored.

Of course there are numerous differences. A very big one being most people don't encourage or brag about sexual assault. No one is perfect. Few people have skin as thin as Trumps, and not many would have insecurity-fueled episode of mocking someone's disabilities. Most people consider that a despicable thing.
Thanks for playing along and doing exactly what the OP is discussing.

 

[Mindmaster]

Of course there are numerous differences. A very big one being most people don't encourage or brag about sexual assault. No one is perfect. Few people have skin as thin as Trumps, and not many would have insecurity-fueled episode of mocking someone's disabilities. Most people consider that a despicable thing.
Thanks for playing along and doing exactly what the OP is discussing.

I'll raise you one:

Name one thing Trump did right... Just one.

Not his personal feelings, or yours... Just job. Can't? You're obvious not seeing clearly through your own feelings. It's that simple. I find it endlessly amusing to watch people here constantly bash him for his cruelty to others while simultaneously demonstrating that cruelty themselves.

I don't give a crap about his ego, his emotional fragility, or anything else along those lines. I'm not his momma. They're obviously untrue... He's the President and got elected. These 'issues' obviously didn't prevent the success of his campaign or they'd be more important. They didn't, and they wouldn't stop him from winning 2020 either. Whatever his faults he has the ability to push past them and make them not matter, and he'll do it again.

 

[Sunstone]

I think what makes this thread different from the threads I've seen on so-called, "Trump Derangement Syndrome" is that @Mr Spinkles is providing examples in support of his points, while I don't recall that being done in any threads on the latter subject.

 

[Erebus]

Try actually talking to them instead.

It's a good sentiment but overly optimistic.

I get along reasonably well with a few people who might be considered alt-lite*. We have other interests in common despite being on opposite sides of the political divide.

There is nothing I could say to them that would make them see an alternate point of view. Any concession I might make (such as not agreeing with the minority of protesters who use violence) is utterly unreciprocated. These are people who were horrified when somebody threw a milkshake at Nigel Farage but gleefully joke about protesters being beaten. When that Nazi guy was punched, it was evidence of how violent the left is. When that Antifa girl was punched, it was hilarious.

These are people from the UK who largely aren't as extreme as their US counterparts.

Talking things through with conservatives is generally a positive thing. Talking things through with the sort of people the OP is describing is utterly futile. Opposition is unfortunately the only appropriate course of action.


*Simply put: Alt-right without the white supremacism.

 

[Yerda]

I think there is: fascism.

I think it's a mistake to take Trump supporters at their word. Most of them are fully aware of what he's doing and how he's different from other people. They don't care about telling you the truth; they care about getting you off their case long enough to advance their fascist agenda.

I don't think that's fair at all. There are fascist Trump fans but there are plenty who just see him as the best chance of getting things done they want done. I think they're daft but most aren't cryptofascists biding their time.

The major appeal for a lot of them seems to be that he drives liberals mental and that for them is a big win. Politics is tribal, like sports, and winning feels good.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I don't think that's fair at all. There are fascist Trump fans but there are plenty who just see him as the best chance of getting things done they want done.

... and the things that Trump is getting done advance American fascism.

I think they're daft but most aren't cryptofascists biding their time.

I don't think they're biding their time... or trying to be that "crypto."

The major appeal for a lot of them seems to be that he drives liberals mental and that for them is a big win. Politics is tribal, like sports, and winning feels good.

I'm not really sure how this is supposed to be different from what I described.

 

[Stevicus]

Talking things through with conservatives is generally a positive thing. Talking things through with the sort of people the OP is describing is utterly futile. Opposition is unfortunately the only appropriate course of action.

What I've noticed is that there's no real middle ground in a lot of the rhetoric going back and forth. There's a certain mentality of "those who are not with us are against us" on both sides of the spectrum.

 

[Erebus]

What I've noticed is that there's no real middle ground in a lot of the rhetoric going back and forth. There's a certain mentality of "those who are not with us are against us" on both sides of the spectrum.

Certainly.

To some extent, this is inevitable as the left and right will often have opposite ideas on what constitutes a problem and how we should approach these issues. Even at the best of times, there will be certain issues where compromise is impossible. In recent years, this has only gotten worse.

The example of the unreasonable man given earlier reflects my own experiences here:

Meet me in the middle, says the unjust man.

You take a step toward him. He takes a step back.

Meet me in the middle, says the unjust man.

It became apparent to me some time ago that there are occasions when those asking you to meet in the middle will never make compromises themselves. Sometimes you just have to stand your ground.

Now this doesn't mean that I can't find some good in those people. As I said, there are hard right-wingers who I can find quite pleasant company ... just so long as we talk about something other than politics

 

[Yerda]

... and the things that Trump is getting done advance American fascism.

Sometimes, yes.

Take border control. That's been a pretty horrendous state of affairs and it appears that the psychos enforcing it have been off the leash since Trump became president. Fascist is maybe the right word for ICE and the family separations, beatings, rapes and now hysterectomies. God knows what else.

I don't think most Trump fans want that, and I'm pretty sure the gist of the OP is that the typical Trump fan will deny it all. Because they don't see themselves as fascists i.e. they don't want fascism. A good measure of them are currently charging about screaming about masks and assualts on their liberty. I think they see themselves as the anti-authoritarians.

At least that's how I see it.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

What I've noticed is that there's no real middle ground in a lot of the rhetoric going back and forth. There's a certain mentality of "those who are not with us are against us" on both sides of the spectrum.

As I quoted earlier in the thread:

Meet me in the middle, says the unjust man.

You take a step toward him. He takes a step back.

Meet me in the middle, says the unjust man.

Source

Exactly what "middle ground" are you envisioning that you think people on both sides should support?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Sometimes, yes.

Take border control. That's been a pretty horrendous state of affairs and it appears that the psychos enforcing it have been off the leash since Trump became president. Fascist is maybe the right word for ICE and the family separations, beatings, rapes and now hysterectomies. God knows what else.

I don't think most Trump fans want that, and I'm pretty sure the gist of the OP is that the typical Trump fan will deny it all. Because they don't see themselves as fascists i.e. they don't want fascism. A good measure of them are currently charging about screaming about masks and assualts on their liberty. I think they see themselves as the anti-authoritarians.

At least that's how I see it.

I see a lot of these same people who scream about masks also praising the tear gassing and arresting of protestors, praising the paramilitary "militias" who have been working with police, responding to police shootings of civilians by slapping "blue lives matter" bumper stickers on their trucks, and generally supporting *right wing* government.

They seem to me to be very authoritarian and pro-government, but only with regard to the sort of government they want.

I'm not the first one to make this observation, but I agree with it: it's very interesting how quickly that the American right went from "I need my guns to defend against a tyrannical government" to "I need my guns to help support the police."

 

[Stevicus]

Certainly.

To some extent, this is inevitable as the left and right will often have opposite ideas on what constitutes a problem and how we should approach these issues. Even at the best of times, there will be certain issues where compromise is impossible. In recent years, this has only gotten worse.

True, although I don't see the current dissension as something that "just happened" out of the blue. It's been bubbling under the surface for a very long time now, and instead of nipping it in the bud when we had the chance, it was allowed to fester. Instead of examining the causes of problems in a logical and analytical manner, people seem more inclined to attack symptoms.

The example of the unreasonable man given earlier reflects my own experiences here:

There's no reason to meet the unreasonable man in the middle under these circumstances. The only reason why this is even a problem today is because the so-called "reasonable" moderates have been asleep at the switch and largely apathetic and out of touch with what's going on. Long before Trump, they've had plenty of time to deal with the underlying issues which have come to a head recently. All of these issues which are brought up - poverty, economic malaise, racism, healthcare, immigration, war/militarism, you name it - they were all issues facing this country long before Trump came on the scene. Where was the "reasonable man" to deal with these issues all these decades?

Trump is a symptom of this country's failure to address these issues in earnest. I would never suggest that people meet the "unreasonable man" in the middle, but there are still issues that will need to be addressed.

It became apparent to me some time ago that there are occasions when those asking you to meet in the middle will never make compromises themselves. Sometimes you just have to stand your ground.

Now this doesn't mean that I can't find some good in those people. As I said, there are hard right-wingers who I can find quite pleasant company ... just so long as we talk about something other than politics

I guess it depends on what compromises one is willing to make and whether it's based on a consistent set of principles.

 

[Stevicus]

As I quoted earlier in the thread:

Meet me in the middle, says the unjust man.

You take a step toward him. He takes a step back.

Meet me in the middle, says the unjust man.

Source

Exactly what "middle ground" are you envisioning that you think people on both sides should support?

See my response to @Erebus.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

See my response to @Erebus.

Doesn't answer my question:

Exactly what "middle ground" are you envisioning that you think people on both sides should support?

 

[Revoltingest]

What I've noticed is that there's no real middle ground in a lot of the rhetoric going back and forth. There's a certain mentality of "those who are not with us are against us" on both sides of the spectrum.

That attitude leaves no room for those who see
both merit & faults in the policies of both sides.
Discussions tend to devolve into picking one
side, & attacking the other.