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Trump and the riots

Discussion in 'Political Debates' started by Unveiled Artist, Jan 21, 2021.

  1. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist Veteran Member

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    I'm not sure if this would be considered on a objective basis since people hate Trump, but I never thought he started the riot at the capitol. Here's something about it Trump Did Not Cause, Commit Capitol Riots

    On three occasions during his speech, President Trump encouraged his supporters to march to the Capitol and cheer for Trump's election. President Trump, however, did not state or imply that anyone should breach the Capitol, vandalize it or accost the lawmakers. In fact, he specifically stated that their protest should be peaceful. The three statements are as follows:

    "And, after this, we're going to walk down, and I'll be there with you, we're going to walk down, we're going to walk down, any one you want but I think right here, we're going to walk down to the Capitol and we're going to cheer on our brave Senators, Congressmen and women."

    "I know that everyone here will soon be marching over to the Capitol building, to peacefully and patriotically make your voices heard."

    "We're going to walk down Pennsylvania Avenue. I love Pennsylvania Avenue. And we're going to the Capitol and we're going to try and give, the Democrats are hopeless, they're never voting for anything, not even one vote. But we're going to try and give our Republicans, the weak ones, because the strong ones don't need any of our help. We're going to try and give them the kind of pride and boldness that they need to take back our country. So let's walk down Pennsylvania Avenue."

    ...

    Whether the author likes Trump or not (which is irrelevant) is not really the issue. To me, it's more people already didn't like Trump so they pin anything on the guy just because of the behavior of his "followers."

    Enjoy
     
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  2. Shadow Wolf

    Shadow Wolf Rival's Wife

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    Considering Newsmax (along with OAN) have replaced Fox as the King of RW spin I'm not surprised they would say he's not responsible. Those clowns and cretins were, after all, strong supporters of the nonsense of a stolen election from massive fraud.
    And don't forget, Trump also told them to "fight like hell" and fight to have a legitimate election overthrown.
     
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  3. Meerkat

    Meerkat Well-Known Member

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    It will all come out in Trump's impeachment trial in the Senate.
    Personally I think he is guilty as charged.
     
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  4. Windwalker

    Windwalker Veteran Member
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    Context. Masking intentions with words like "peacefully", while the entire context was about "stopping the steal", and the language, as well as all the rhetoric leading up to it, was a clear message to support an attempt to overturn the election results and keep him in power - the definition of insurrection. Just saying "peacefully", is a wink and a nod to supporters, who knew damn well what he was instructing them to do. They even said, multiple supporters, that Trump wanted them to storm the Capitol. They were following his orders.

    If you think it is a case where he was misunderstood, then why did he watch the events unfold on T.V. for over an hour, reportedly on the edge of glee, and not saying anything to correct some supposed "misunderstanding"? There was no misunderstanding. He was pleased, and said nothing to stop it. "We love you" was his response.
     
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  5. SkepticThinker

    SkepticThinker Veteran Member

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    And "you're special."
     
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  6. Windwalker

    Windwalker Veteran Member
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    Exactly. He just says all the other stuff as a smokescreen for the left, saying the right words, but dog whistling to his supporter who heard him loud and clear. "Stand down, and stand by". Stand by? For what? Violent insurrection, of course.

    Nobody is fooled by this nonsense of him using words like "peacefully protest". They all knew what he was telling them, both by their actions and by their own words they were following his orders.
     
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  7. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist Veteran Member

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    If his "plan" for followers to riot was implied not direct, how do you prove that in court?

    I would think people would think for themselves and blame the "followers." Unless directly stated "storm the capitol" it just sounds like he was framed. It doesn't mean he's innocent of other mishaps more or less.
     
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  8. Revoltingest

    Revoltingest I have the kavorka
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    "Cause" suggests to me something singular & direct.
    Instead, I say Trump had major responsibility in
    creating an atmosphere leading to the riot. He was
    far from alone.
    It's culpability that wouldn't rise to the level of conviction
    of a crime in court, but his recklessness was unacceptable.
    But Giuliani....he should be prosecuted for direct & clear
    fomenting violence.
     
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  9. Windwalker

    Windwalker Veteran Member
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    Wait and see. :) They already impeached him on a bipartisan vote for it, so clearly, such excuses about his falsely soft-pedaling language did not fly with the people. Everyone, except the denialists, see clearly the 600lb orange gorilla in the room. There is no, 'but did he really mean this' argument that will hold any water whatsoever.

    How do you excuse the Big Lie, and the calls to come to Washington to fight? It's not just that one speech, but everything he has done leading up, and calling for a revolt to stop the election certification. That is an attack on our democracy. That is insurrection. That is sedition.
     
    #9 Windwalker, Jan 21, 2021
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2021
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  10. SkepticThinker

    SkepticThinker Veteran Member

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    Yep, exactly!
     
  11. SkepticThinker

    SkepticThinker Veteran Member

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    Even Mitch McConnell thinks the mob was provoked by Trump.
     
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  12. Windwalker

    Windwalker Veteran Member
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    Yes, he is not fooled by these absurd semantics arguments. Nobody is, except for those who still want to believe him as a failed despot in his coup attempt against the American Democracy and its people. Just because you say the word "peacefully", in the context of telling them to go over and stop the certification process, means nothing. Going over to "stop it", means everything.
     
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  13. Magic Man

    Magic Man Reaper of Conversation

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    1) That source is Newsmax, one of the worst/most biased sources you can use.

    2) Please don't use the so-often-debunked "People just don't like Trump" stuff. People don't like Trump because of the stuff he's done and said. Not the other way around. For 2 months Trump railed against the election results, claiming it was fraudulent, fighting it in court where it was thrown out almost every time, and even trying to strong-arm a governor into creating votes out of thin air, so he could win Georgia. He encouraged his supporters the whole time to buy into this ridiculous narrative, claiming the democrats were stealing the election. No, he never explicitly said "Go storm the Capitol and attack Congress". People like him rarely make it quite that plain, but it's obvious from everything he and his politician supporters said for 2 months that they were encouraging that kind of behavior.

    Here's a collection of clips of exactly how this was strongly encouraged by Trump and his people:

     
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  14. Meerkat

    Meerkat Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, Trump's special people.
     
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  15. Audie

    Audie Veteran Member

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    Allofa sudden he is respectable
     
  16. SkepticThinker

    SkepticThinker Veteran Member

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    No, not at all. In fact, I think it was too little, too late. But still better than not at all.

    Just pointing out that even some hardcore Republicans can see Trump's direct influence in all of this.
     
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  17. Father Heathen

    Father Heathen Veteran Member

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    Who has suggested that?
     
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  18. Shadow Wolf

    Shadow Wolf Rival's Wife

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    It's quite puzzling that he still gets people using that excuse despite the fact he has said he meant what he said.
    It's like saying the emperor has a suit a fur on instead of just saying he's naked.
     
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  19. Windwalker

    Windwalker Veteran Member
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    He designed it that way, I believe. You can see as he's saying words like 'peaceful', etc., it's a designed sugar-coating for audiences outside of those he's speaking to, his base. They know he's not saying that for them. It's all the other stuff he is saying like, rise up in revolt with force if necessary language strewn throughout his language and posturings, that they are receiving as his will for them to do in his name.

    The meaning is sent, and using democracy buzzwords like "peacefully protesting", it's to send smokescreens to the outsiders. They do not inhabit the principles of democracy, as they co-opt its language for fascist ideals. "Dog Whistles" are being sent through all that smoke, and that language is obvious once you take in the whole picture. This scam of his started before the election, claiming it would be stolen. Get them ready to show their "loyalty" to him, and come fight for him. He even got members of congress to show loyalty to him in his attempt to steal the presidency.
     
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  20. InChrist

    InChrist Free4ever

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    Whatever, just because you don’t like certain news sources and are good at using derogatory names does not discount reality. How many politicians on both sides have said things such as “fight like hell”? You’ve probably said similar things in your lifetime without ever literally meaning to fight with physical violence.
    The United States government has instigated numerous coups in other countries, inciting violence, death and destruction. Several of these real and deadly insurrections occurred during the Obama/ Biden administration.
    These real insurrections, orchestrated with tactical, covert military operatives shine the light on what an insurrection is. A bunch of disorganized nuts, a guy with Viking horns, or people caught up in a mob scene at the Capitol on January 6th was not an insurrection.


     
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