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Trump administration launches global effort to end criminalization of homosexuality

ADigitalArtist

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
That's still sane, but vulnerable to crossing the line.
As soon as you need a 2 axle trailer to haul one tool, you're in goofball territory.
Thankfully my window is more Victorian and prior all the way to medieval. Small stuff. My biggest piece is a five foot long lathe bed which is detachable from a small treadle base. Nothing I can't fit in the car.
 

Kangaroo Feathers

Yea, it is written in the Book of Cyril...
Transgenderism decreases the effectiveness of a combat fighter pilot differently than how colorblindness reduces a combat fighter pilot effectiveness; transgender persons on medical leave for getting gender reassignment therapy or surgery would not be able to do their piloting jobs.
Not all transgender people get "gender reassignment therapy". You're ad hocing justifications. Again.
 

Kangaroo Feathers

Yea, it is written in the Book of Cyril...
Body dysphoria is a mental problem thus they are disqualified due to this mental problem.
"It's bad because it's a mental problem, it's a mental problem because it's bad" right?

Love the way NVMOS circular rationalisations always just happen to justify prior bias.
 

Shad

Veteran Member
"It's bad because it's a mental problem, it's a mental problem because it's bad" right?

No. It is just a disqualifying condition which the military nor it's personal need to deal with.

Love the way NVMOS circular rationalisations always just happen to justify prior bias.

Except that this idea is a fiction in your head so congratulation on responding to yourself...
 

Kangaroo Feathers

Yea, it is written in the Book of Cyril...
No. It is just a disqualifying condition which the military nor it's personal need to deal with.



Except that this idea is a fiction in your head so congratulation on responding to yourself...
Without resorting to ad hominems then, perhaps you can explain why you think a mental problem is sufficient grounds for discharge? Not individual specific mental problems that would objectively diminish effectiveness, just mental problems as a matter of course, which seems to be your position here?
 

ADigitalArtist

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
Cool, so we're in agreement that just because X unit might not be comfortable with Y group, that's insufficient reason for removing Y group from the ability to give active service. Don't ask, don't tell was removed because it was unconstitutional, no matter who had problems with homophobia within the ranks.
It is a body dysphoria
No ****.
Doubt that.
There are multiple types of dysphoria, not all of them physical. And body dysphoria is not present in all trans, both before and after transitioning. Body dysphoria is present in several non-trans people though. Anybody who is obsessive with perceived flaws in appearance can be body dysmorphic due to dysphoria. People with eating disorders such as your anorexic often (but not always) have body dysphoria and dysmorphia. I would go so far as saying that most people with body dysphoria are not transgendered.
Super compelling, that.
 

Kangaroo Feathers

Yea, it is written in the Book of Cyril...
Cool, so we're in agreement that just because X unit might not be comfortable with Y group, that's insufficient reason for removing Y group from the ability to give active service. Don't ask, don't tell was removed because it was unconstitutional, no matter who had problems with homophobia within the ranks.
Don't forget exactly the same arguments were made about desegregating the military back after the Second World War.

I was just out of the army when Australia decided to allow women into combat roles. I was against it, sincerely believed the "but unit effectiveness!" rhetoric. It's been several years now, women are integrated in Australian combat units, and all the doomsayers (like me) turned out to be just as wrong as the doomsayers who said letting women into the Army ion the first place would be bad, or doomsayers saying removing racial segregation would be bad before that. So, trying to learn from earlier mistakes, I'm open to "unit effectiveness" arguments about transgender soldiers, but I'm going to want to see some pretty thorough data before buying the argument, rather than the old "but everybody knows!" and "well some troops just plain don't like 'em!" rationalisations.

Professional soldiers are grown ups. You don't have to LIKE who you're serving with, that's what discipline is for.
 

Shad

Veteran Member
Without resorting to ad hominems then, perhaps you can explain why you think a mental problem is sufficient grounds for discharge?
Not individual specific mental problems that would objectively diminish effectiveness, just mental problems as a matter of course, which seems to be your position here?


As the problem can not be handled in combat deployment without pulling out the individual or putting others in risk .It reduced combat effectiveness and readiness as the individual has a lower reliable probability and risk factor than average. Others in the military and the unit itself becomes affected by a problem that has nothing to do them nor with the military itself via injecting of a problem into the ranks ergo an unnecessary addition. There physical condition which are treatable but disqualify one from service as well such as diabetes as the military tries to take the best it can not merely "What is offered"
 

Kangaroo Feathers

Yea, it is written in the Book of Cyril...
As the problem can not be handled in combat deployment without pulling out the individual or putting others in risk
Begging the question there, aren't we? In what way is a soldier's transgenderism "a problem" that would effect combat capability?

Or are you conflating "transgender" with "transitioning"?
 
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Shad

Veteran Member
Cool, so we're in agreement that just because X unit might not be comfortable with Y group, that's insufficient reason for removing Y group from the ability to give active service.

No. You merely assumed you could find X without demonstrating you found X. More so you have provided zero evidence that the evaluation by the Marines showing a statistical drop in effectiveness is due to "discomfort" rather than basic biological difference between men and women. FYI the injury rate for women was 6x higher. That was due to discomfort too right?

Don't ask, don't tell was removed because it was unconstitutional, no matter who had problems with homophobia within the ranks.

Ergo nothing to do with the military.


There are multiple types of dysphoria, not all of them physical. And body dysphoria is not present in all trans, both before and after transitioning. Body dysphoria is present in several non-trans people though. Anybody who is obsessive with perceived flaws in appearance can be body dysmorphic due to dysphoria. People with eating disorders such as your anorexic often (but not always) have body dysphoria and dysmorphia. I would go so far as saying that most people with body dysphoria are not transgendered.


All TG have it by definition.

All people with body dysphoria are disqualified anyways.

Super compelling, that.

You stated an opinion and I disagreed.
 

Salvador

RF's Swedenborgian
evidently its not Trumps policy, he doesn't know anything about it!!

Trump appears unaware of administration effort to legalize homosexuality abroad

There's nothin' wrong wit being gay, you know. Trump has friends who are gay.

Donald+Trump+and+Sir+Elton+John+Elton+John+AIDS+Foundation%27s+12th+Annual+Oscar+party+co-hosted+by+In+Style+-+Inside+Pearl+West+Hollywood,+California+United+States+February+29,+2004.jpg
 

Shad

Veteran Member
Begging the question there, aren't we?

Nope

In what way is a soldier's transgenderism "a problem" that would effect combat capability?

It starts with basic training due to the different standards for men and women. TGs had a mulligan in which they could take basic twice if they failed to meet the standards of the first course. IE Fail male standards only to retake the course with female standards. No male is provided that chance. More a lot of the males that bomb basic male courses can easily complete the female requirements. Ergo soldiers that can not match their peers requiring the unit to pick up the slack. Toss in the various emotion problems TGs have is something the unit does not need to deal with as it distract the unit from their mission. Besides even TG advocates place the suicide rates at 40% which should set alarm bells off.
 

Kangaroo Feathers

Yea, it is written in the Book of Cyril...
Nope



It starts with basic training due to the different standards for men and women. TGs had a mulligan in which they could take basic twice if they failed to meet the standards of the first course. IE Fail male standards only to retake the course with female standards. No male is provided that chance. More a lot of the males that bomb basic male courses can easily complete the female requirements. Ergo soldiers that can not match their peers requiring the unit to pick up the slack. Toss in the various emotion problems TGs have is something the unit does not need to deal with as it distract the unit from their mission. Besides even TG advocates place the suicide rates at 40% which should set alarm bells off.
So just a lot of ad hoc speculation. Understood.
 

Salvador

RF's Swedenborgian
ILove how a photo of Trump with Sir Elton is supposed to be proof of Trump's deep committment to homosexual rights, but photos of Trump with either Clinton or Epstein are meaningless.

Trump had to be friendly towards the Clintons, because Hillary was his Senator in New York where he did lots of business.
 
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