Trump administration launches global effort to end criminalization of homosexuality

[Revoltingest]

Due to the small percentage the special treatment was not a significant cost to the military.

From: Trans healthcare costs are actually a tiny proportion of the US military budget

On Wednesday, when Donald Trump tweeted that the US armed forces would not “allow or accept” transgender people into military service, he argued the Pentagon “cannot be burdened with the tremendous medical costs” of covering transgender-related healthcare.

That’s been a common refrain for Republicans who oppose open service by transgender members of the military. In June, the congresswoman Vicki Hartzler of Missouri said that the cost of covering service members’ transition care was “over a billion dollars”.

But is the cost really “tremendous”?

Transgender care cost in comparison with total Pentagon healthcare spending

A closer look at the cost of healthcare for transgender military members – these are treatments such as counseling and hormone replacement therapy – suggests it’s more like a drop in the ocean of cash that is the Pentagon’s annual budget.

According to a 2016 study by the Rand Corporation and commissioned by Barack Obama’s secretary of defense, transgender-related healthcare for active duty military would cost anywhere between $2.4m to $8.4m – not billions.

In fiscal year 2014, before the study was completed, the Pentagon spent $6.27bn on healthcare costs for all active-duty personnel. That same fiscal year, the Pentagon spend a huge $49.3bn on all healthcare costs – for members of the military, their family members, and retirees and their families.

These comparisons uses the high-end estimate of $8.4m, which is based on a scenario that members of the military are twice as likely to be transgender as members of the general public.

Transgender care cost in comparison with a single F-35s fighter plane
Even at the high end, transgender care is just a fraction of what the military spends on single items in its budget.

For instance, in February, the Pentagon inked a new deal with Lockheed Martin to buy 90 F-35s – at a steal – for $8.2bn, or $91.1m per plane. The jets are restricted from flying at night or in the rain due to safety concerns.

Transgender care cost in comparison with a combat ship
Here’s how transgender healthcare costs compare with the estimated cost, $478m, of a single Littoral combat ship. Last year, Senator John McCain blasted these ships for having “practically no proven combat capability”.

The cost per person is more important than total cost.
Judgment of capability & cost effectiveness should be
based upon the individual.

 

[shunyadragon]

The cost per person is more important than total cost.
Judgment of capability & cost effectiveness should be
based upon the individual.

The cost per person is more important than total cost.
Judgment of capability & cost effectiveness should be
based upon the individual.

Fundamentally tRump broke his campaign promise and dishonestly misrepresented the costs.

 

[Revoltingest]

Fundamentally tRump broke his campaign promise and dishonestly misrepresented the costs.

And that has bearing on this thread how?

 

[Epic Beard Man]

Me... I've been shunned for having exposed myself in the men's restroom at a Bavarian department store restroom to some German lady restroom attendant ...This happened over 25 years ago, before I was married, and way before the me too movement.

I mean who does that? I'm for one in no place to judge you but why would you do that?

 

[Salvador]

I mean who does that? I'm for one in no place to judge you but why would you do that?

I was intoxicated, plus she shouldn't of been in the men's bathroom watching me in the mirror.

 

[Salvador]

Due to the small percentage the special treatment was not a significant cost to the military.

From: Trans healthcare costs are actually a tiny proportion of the US military budget

On Wednesday, when Donald Trump tweeted that the US armed forces would not “allow or accept” transgender people into military service, he argued the Pentagon “cannot be burdened with the tremendous medical costs” of covering transgender-related healthcare.

That’s been a common refrain for Republicans who oppose open service by transgender members of the military. In June, the congresswoman Vicki Hartzler of Missouri said that the cost of covering service members’ transition care was “over a billion dollars”.

But is the cost really “tremendous”?

Transgender care cost in comparison with total Pentagon healthcare spending

A closer look at the cost of healthcare for transgender military members – these are treatments such as counseling and hormone replacement therapy – suggests it’s more like a drop in the ocean of cash that is the Pentagon’s annual budget.

According to a 2016 study by the Rand Corporation and commissioned by Barack Obama’s secretary of defense, transgender-related healthcare for active duty military would cost anywhere between $2.4m to $8.4m – not billions.

In fiscal year 2014, before the study was completed, the Pentagon spent $6.27bn on healthcare costs for all active-duty personnel. That same fiscal year, the Pentagon spend a huge $49.3bn on all healthcare costs – for members of the military, their family members, and retirees and their families.

These comparisons uses the high-end estimate of $8.4m, which is based on a scenario that members of the military are twice as likely to be transgender as members of the general public.

Transgender care cost in comparison with a single F-35s fighter plane
Even at the high end, transgender care is just a fraction of what the military spends on single items in its budget.

For instance, in February, the Pentagon inked a new deal with Lockheed Martin to buy 90 F-35s – at a steal – for $8.2bn, or $91.1m per plane. The jets are restricted from flying at night or in the rain due to safety concerns.

Transgender care cost in comparison with a combat ship
Here’s how transgender healthcare costs compare with the estimated cost, $478m, of a single Littoral combat ship. Last year, Senator John McCain blasted these ships for having “practically no proven combat capability”.

I've suggested an XY chromosomal transgender person with low testosterone levels should get more testosterone in order to make him more masculine, but somebody told me this doesn't work; because an XY chromosomal transgender person whose body has low testosterone might convert any increased levels of testosterone into estrogen. Is this true?

 

[Revoltingest]

I was intoxicated, plus she shouldn't of been in the men's bathroom watching me in the mirror.

Meh....I've been more irresponsible than that.
But I'll offer no details, what with this most unforgiving audience.
(They only way they'd defend me is if I ran for President as a Democrat.)

 

[Mindmaster]

Due to the small percentage the special treatment was not a significant cost to the military.

The cost is irrelevant, military cohesion is a safety issue in the field. You don't get to grow your hair out long, or have a beard either. There is a long list of things that are the reasons behind that, but that's the short of it.

 

[Mindmaster]

This has bigotry written all over it...

I doubt you would say the above to this person face to face. This SEAL actually called out people for saying exactly what you said. I, for one would rather have some transgendered soldier that knows how to shoot watching my six, than some slack jawed bigoted hillbilly.

View attachment 27049

Yeah, I would say it to their face. If they did anything about it they'd just prove my point. Only the mentally unstable expect everyone to cow to their interests with no consideration of the other people around them and their feelings on the matter.

Anyway, the military isn't a lab rat for some social experiment -- it's a combat unit. We barely have the issues worked out in the civilian space, it's really the prudent course. If thinking that makes me a bigot in anyone's eyes they lack the intellectual capacity for me to care about their opinion, lol.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

I've suggested an XY chromosomal transgender person with low testosterone levels should get more testosterone in order to make him more masculine, but somebody told me this doesn't work; because an XY chromosomal transgender person whose body has low testosterone might convert any increased levels of testosterone into estrogen. Is this true?

No, what I said is that there's no evidence of trans xy person having low t. Giving testosterone to someone without low t does nothing because the excess is converted to estrogen.

Furthermore, most men with low t do not report gender dysphoria, but do have other complications such as losing hair and bone density which is not the case with trans women prior to receiving t blockers and estrogen.

The same is true in reverse. I have extremely low estrogen (and subsequently higher t) naturally but even before I started medication I did not identify as a man, and had no gender dysphoria.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

Only the mentally unstable expect everyone to cow to their interests with no consideration of the other people around them and their feelings on the matter.

Same argument used to stunt a number or civil rights battles.

Anyway, the military isn't a lab rat for some social experiment -- it's a combat unit. We barely have the issues worked out in the civilian space, it's really the prudent course.

Same argument used to perpetuate 'don't ask, don't tell.' All it serves is to coddle backwards thinking long after it should have been extricated.
I don't care how much a racist finds serving next to a black man to be uncomfortable. That's a problem with *their* feelings interfering with *their* work. Not the black man.
And not the trans man.

If thinking that makes me a bigot in anyone's eyes they lack the intellectual capacity for me to care about their opinion, lol.

Yes because this is so much more a mature angle.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

Same argument used to stunt a number or civil rights battles.

Same argument used to perpetuate 'don't ask, don't tell.' All it serves is to coddle backwards thinking long after it should have been extricated.
I don't care how much a racist finds serving next to a black man to be uncomfortable. That's a problem with *their* feelings interfering with *their* work. Not the black man.
And not the trans man.

Yes because this is so much more a mature angle.

I could not have articulated it better.

 

[stvdv]

There is already a 5 page thread dedicated to this topic, fyi.

Still a lot of discrimination and disrespect, so probably good there is 1 more thread
We do have also more than 1 Christian denomination, so ....

And in a way it is nice that D.T has a good thing on his agenda
We see lots of negative about D.T ... nice they have something nice about D.T now

 

[Audie]

And that has bearing on this thread how?

Easy. It is anti trump. That the same can be said of
every politician or contractor that ever lived does not
detract from its power as a devastating indictment.

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

There's more gays than transgenders who only happen to be such a small fraction of the world's population, so then that'd make Iran persecute more people than Saudi Arabia.

There's more lots of members of groups than members of other groups. It doesn't make it ok to discriminate against them.

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

Still a lot of discrimination and disrespect, so probably good there is 1 more thread
We do have also more than 1 Christian denomination, so ....

And in a way it is nice that D.T has a good thing on his agenda
We see lots of negative about D.T ... nice they have something nice about D.T now

If Trump has the agenda mentioned in the op, I will support him for it. From the article it sounds like it's the ambassador to Germany's agenda, not Trump's. Has Trump made any statement about it or, better yet, offered financial or diplomatic support?

 

[BSM1]

Nope. It is your opinion that excluding transgender from serving in the military is unconstitutional. But it is no more unconstitutional than disallowing paraplegics, asthmatics or short people.

Nor preventing color blind individuals from becoming fighter pilots...

 

[BSM1]

If Trump has the agenda mentioned in the op, I will support him for it. From the article it sounds like it's the ambassador to Germany's agenda, not Trump's. Has Trump made any statement about it or, better yet, offered financial or diplomatic support?

You do realize that ambassadors do not make policy? They work at the pleasure of the President; they reflect the intentions of the White House.

 

[suncowiam]

Yeah, I would say it to their face. If they did anything about it they'd just prove my point. Only the mentally unstable expect everyone to cow to their interests with no consideration of the other people around them and their feelings on the matter.

Anyway, the military isn't a lab rat for some social experiment -- it's a combat unit. We barely have the issues worked out in the civilian space, it's really the prudent course. If thinking that makes me a bigot in anyone's eyes they lack the intellectual capacity for me to care about their opinion, lol.

It's all still speculation.

Other militaries have still shown effectiveness with LGBT. Some generals and high military have defended the inclusion of LGBT.

I say you're partially right but instead of just testing for LGBT, I say we test for the mental and physical traits needed for each position. It is discrimination to assume LGBT is already inferior for the position required.

 

[Salvador]

There's more lots of members of groups than members of other groups. It doesn't make it ok to discriminate against them.

Iran is wrong to persecute homosexuals and Saudi Arabia is wrong to persecute transgenders.; they both are wrong. Hopefully, Iran will decriminalize homosexuality and Saudi Arabia will decriminalize transgenderism.