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Trucker ticketed $500 for poor English

Discussion in 'North American Politics' started by NoahideHiker, Jul 18, 2008.

  1. LittlePinky82

    LittlePinky82 Well-Known Member

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    How does it make sense? Countries most of the time progress and change. How do you know in ten or twenty years Mandarin won't be the popular language? So should that be official then?

    If he broke some law are you going to cite what law he broke?
     
  2. Magic Man

    Magic Man Reaper of Conversation

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    Nice try at using the Christian analogy. There is a huge difference. Speaking English doesn't change anything about you except your ability to communicate with everyone better. I'm not asking anyone to change their culture or religion. They can continue with all of their customs. All they have to do is be able to communicate easily with everyone here with no special accommodations. That's not much to ask.

    I'm surprised you would even try to equate learning a new language with converting religions.

    And my point is that those languages shouldn't become more popular, as all of those people should speak English also, anyway. And, no you shouldn't make Native American languages the official ones. You don't seem to understand the concept. The vast, vast majority of Americans speak English either as a native language or at least fluently. It is the language almost all of business is done in, and has been for practically the entire life of the country. If more people spoke Native American languages than English, then I'd be all for that. As it is, it makes sense for English to be it. The whole point is for better and easier communication.

    And again. I'm glad everyone came here. It's a great country built on diversity. I love it being diverse. I love learning other languages. BUT, if we don't have a common language, it's extremely hard to communicate. That is the whole point of language, after all.
     
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  3. Magic Man

    Magic Man Reaper of Conversation

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    Then don't come here. It's that simple. If I move to another country, I expect to learn the language they speak there. I don't expect them to cater to me.

    Then, you've been talking to the wrong people, you should've been talking to me. Just because some people feel that way doesn't make it right or wrong. I have no problem with any group of people. As I've stated, I love other cultures, which is why I've taken the time to study them. Sure, those people are wrong for wanting it because they don't like certain groups. That doesn't mean the idea itself is wrong, though, just their reasoning.
     
  4. Scuba Pete

    Scuba Pete Le plongeur avec attitude...

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    Sure it is. Why should everyone speak JUST LIKE YOU???
    It's not easy to face the truth. You should try it sometime! :D
    Why? Because it would be convenient for YOU?
    Au contraire! I understand the roots of bigotry incredibly well. It first tries to squelch all diversity. If you don't look like us, speak like us or believe what we do: YOU MUST CHANGE TO MATCH US. It's crystal clear to me and revolting all at the same time.
     
  5. Laughing Man

    Laughing Man 1337 |-|4(|<3R

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    The reason we never needed an official language is that before immigrants understood that they needed to learn English. In the past the country did not make concessions to non-English speakers, you either learned the language or you went without many basic services that we now provide translators for. Since we began making so many concessions to non-English speakers (not saying that making some of those concessions were necessarily bad things) more immigrants have been not even bothering to learn English. Because of that it is now becoming an issue; ALMOST every country in the world has an official language. It was understood that English was the unofficial ¬Ė official language before. Every public school teaches English to its students, which shows you the importance of language for being a well adapted member of society in the US. It is unreasonable and unrealistic to try to cater to every other language because somebody does not wish to learn English. I feel it is wonderful for people to want to hold on to their native language and they should since it is part of who they are. However if they wish to be part of our society in the United States of America they should take the time to learn English as much as anybody who wants to be a part of any other country should take the time to learn the native language.
     
  6. LittlePinky82

    LittlePinky82 Well-Known Member

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    Yeah because I'm sure it's always that black and white right? (sarcasm) Again as long as they can do their every day living without the use of the native popular language and there is no law against them speaking in their original language you have no bases of telling other people how to speak. I thought we had a first amendment here? Have you ever read that amendment?

    And again as I've already asked what if in ten or twenty years from now the popular language is Mandarin? Are you going to update the law to where everyone speaks Mandarin? You know the problem with having an official language? Here's the deal. Right now we don't have an official language so whenever you get documents about things (for example the driving book manual to get your license) it comes available in different languages. Same thing with other official government documents. If English becomes the official language everything will have to be in English. People won't bother to print out anything in other languages because they'd just claim those languages aren't official so there's no need. What about new immigrants who never had the opportunity to learn English for whatever purpose? What are they supposed to do in the mean time? At least right now with places you have the choice of English or Spanish.
     
  7. LittlePinky82

    LittlePinky82 Well-Known Member

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    So again I ask what if in ten or twenty years majority of the people are speaking Mandarin? Are you going to update the laws for that and are you going to learn Mandarin? If you don't like Mandarin than how about Japanese or German or Korean?
     
  8. Magic Man

    Magic Man Reaper of Conversation

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    They shouldn't speak just like me. They should be able to communicate with the government and the people here, though.

    So, you're still asserting that making someone learn a new language is equivalent to making them convert religions? Really?

    No, because it's the simplest solution for the country. As I've said, if I plan to move to another country, I plan to learn their language. It has nothing to do with me. It just wouldn't make sense to make it any other language, as that would require a lot more time and effort on the entire country's part.

    I LIKE DIVERSITY! IT'S NOT ABOUT THAT!

    Is that any clearer to you? I don't know why you can't see this. I love diversity, and I love other cultures. I want everyone to continue with all of that. I also want people who live together to be able to communicate with each other. I don't care what you do privately. You can speak any language you want to at home or even in public. All I ask is for you to be able to communicate effectively when it comes to things like the government and law enforcement. It has nothing to do with bigotry. I have nothing against other people. As I've stated several times now, and you've ignored, I love learning about other cultures. I just want them to be able to communicate when they come here, just as I'd communicate when I went to their countries.
     
  9. Magic Man

    Magic Man Reaper of Conversation

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    OK, here it is simply: If right now the majority language was Mandarin, I would support Mandarin as the official language. It really has nothing to do with which one it is. We should just have an official language. The only one that would make sense now is English, and so that's the one I think it should be. I think France's official language should be French, and so on.

    If that is the case, then Mandarin, or any other language, will never become the majority language. That way, English stays the majority. If we don't make English the official language, and Spanish does become the vastly predominant language in 60 years, then I would agree that Spanish should be the official language.
     
  10. Scuba Pete

    Scuba Pete Le plongeur avec attitude...

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    Surely you have some examples of this and are not making it up. I eagerly await the references.
    Surely you have statistics to support your xenoglossophobia. You wouldn't make this stuff up, now would you?
    That's the point! English is NOT our native language. You want to have the MOST COMMON language deemed to be the official language. Well, then it should be written in just that way! Ergo, when Spanish, Cantonese, Mandarin, Russian or some other language succeeds English as our most popular language, then they should be given that preferential "Most Favored Language" status.

    Personally, I feel that we should leave individual communities to deal with their individual language problems. After all, if you can't speak Spanish and are TOO AFRAID to try it, don't go to Miami or even parts of Orlando, Tampa or New York. I certainly don't feel that we should enable your phobias by passing a law to that effect.
     
  11. Scuba Pete

    Scuba Pete Le plongeur avec attitude...

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    Then stop trying to legislate them out of existence.
     
  12. Magic Man

    Magic Man Reaper of Conversation

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    I'm not. Do you actually read, or just post on what you wanted to hear? I want all cultures to continue to exist. I hate the thought of languages going extinct. Asking people to use a common language in addition to their own native language is not equivalent to asking them to give up their native language or anything else about their culture. You keep thinking of it as me asking someone to give something up. I'm not. I'm simply asking them to add to their knowledge/culture.

    Now, if you wouldn't mind, I'd rather you actually read what I wrote before responding to it. If you need to, you can ask questions to clarify. I'd rather you understand it so that I can stop responding to attacks of things I haven't even said.
     
  13. Scuba Pete

    Scuba Pete Le plongeur avec attitude...

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    You have statistics to back this up? How about a REAL native language that is about to go extinct because of ENGLISH? Utes fear their language could disappear | Deseret News (Salt Lake City) | Find Articles at BNET
    Don't delude yourself. I read and I understand you perfectly. I abhor what you are suggesting because I do understand it so well. Xenoglossophobia is rampant in America and you seem to suffer from it.
     
  14. Magic Man

    Magic Man Reaper of Conversation

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    What are you talking about? Statistics for what? I said that I want cultures to continue to exist. I'm not sure how to come up with a statistic for that. I also said that asking someone to learn another language is not asking them to give up their own language or culture. Again, I'm not sure how to come up with a statistic for that. I'm sorry that the Ute language could disappear, but what do you want? English isn't the official language, so that's obviously not the problem there.

    If you did understand what I was saying, you wouldn't call it xenoglossophobia, or any other kind of phobia for that matter. It has nothing to do with any kind of fear.
     
  15. Laughing Man

    Laughing Man 1337 |-|4(|<3R

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    IF in 10-20 years ANY language is what is spoken by a majority and it is what infrastructure’s language is then I would have to learn that new language to function properly in this society. I must ask you what you have against an official language. Do you feel that every country should just do away with their official languages? Then what happens to all the street signs, do we have to make them all enormous to fit as many different languages as possible? Should everybody learn the roughly 6500 spoken languages, and the hundreds of written languages? This is highly impractical, most countries have an official language to avoid these obvious problems. Almost every country in the world makes it so you must learn their common language to become a citizen. It is a matter of making sure that everything moves smoothly in that country.
     
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  16. Storm

    Storm ThrUU the Looking Glass

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    Pete, you're out of line. You're putting words in people's mouths and twisting their statements. Neither Mball nor LaughingMan have expressed bigotry.

    They merely express the expectation of common courtesy. Official or not, English is the main language in this country. Learning the common tongue of the nation you're immigrating to is basic courtesy and common sense. Nobody is suggesting that immigrants should be forced to give up their native tongues or any other aspect of their culture, only that they should do what is necessary to truly function here.
     
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  17. Laughing Man

    Laughing Man 1337 |-|4(|<3R

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    thank you storm!!
     
  18. Storm

    Storm ThrUU the Looking Glass

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    You're welcome.
     
  19. Scuba Pete

    Scuba Pete Le plongeur avec attitude...

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    Ah, denial... it's not just another river in Egypt.
     
  20. Ringer

    Ringer Jar of Clay

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    I'm glad I wasn't the only one who shares these thoughts. For a moment there I thought I was boarding the bigot boat. :D

    I mean, when my church sends out missionaries to foreign nations, they take classes to learn their language so that they can effectively communicate with those in the country. To me that seems like common sense. What other option is there? Forcing the rest of the country to learn english to make it easier for you? Shouldn't you be expected to make a bit of a sacrifice and relinquish a few conveniences for your ultimate well being that you are striving for in the said country?
     
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