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Triune Godhead

Discussion in 'Non-Denominational DIR' started by fromthe heart, Feb 6, 2006.

  1. fromthe heart

    fromthe heart Well-Known Member

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    God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit..."I and my Father are one...The Lord possesed me in the beginning of His way, before His works of old, I was set up from everlasting. When He prepared the heavens I was there...I was daily His delight, rejoicing always before Him" Proverbs 8:22-30 Jesus declared this Himself...as He also spoke of the third person as "the Spirit of Truth", "the Comforter" ...the bible never says anything such as the word trinity but it is refered to throughout the Bible...Jesus was with the Father before the world was made...which can only mean God knew the time would come in His creation that sin would abound to the point that it would take devine intervention to save us from the lake of fire in the final judgment of us all.

    What do YOU take away from this?
     
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  2. dawny0826

    dawny0826 Mother Heathen

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    I believe in the Trinity, very much. God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit...three separate manifestations of God...all ONE God.

    I do believe that Jesus Christ WAS and ALWAYS Has been God's intent for our salvation.
     
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  3. Linus

    Linus Well-Known Member

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    I will start by saying that I believe in the trinity.

    But I do not think that the Proverbs 8 passage above is very good evidence of it. There are two reaons why I say this:

    1. Those verses are talking about wisdom (Proverbs 8:12). This section of the Bible is poetic in nature and is personifying wisdom itself. It is talking about the wisdom of God and how he established wisdom from the beginning.

    2. Even if you did want to try to stretch these verses into an application to Jesus, it really doesn't support the belief of the trinity at all. If Jesus were the same as God the Father, it would necessarily follow that Jesus were there with God, as a part of God, not created by God sometime later as the text suggests (vv. 22-25).

    That's what I take away from this anyway...
     
  4. Quiddity

    Quiddity UndertheInfluenceofGiants

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    Even if a verse read crystal clear is open to another intrepretation. The trinity would still remain somewhat mysterious.The Bible clearly teaches that Jesus is God (cf. John 8:58, 10:38, 14:10; Col. 2:9). It also clearly teaches that the Holy Spirit is God (cf. Acts 5:3–4, 28:25–28; 1 Cor. 2:10–13). Everyone agrees the Father is God. Yet there is only one God (Mark 12:29, 1 Cor. 8:4–6, Jas. 2:19). How can we hold all four truths except by saying all three are somehow the one God?

    On top of that, the language of the Trinity was developed by the Church Fathers. Around the year 181, Theophilus of Antioch expressly used the Greek word trias (trinitas in Latin, trinity in English): "the Trinity: God [the Father], his Word, and his Wisdom" [To Autolycus 2:15]. About twenty years later, Tertullian used the Latin trinitas: "The Unity is distributed in a Trinity. Placed in order, the three are Father, Son, and Spirit" [Against Praxes 2:4].
     
  5. Aqualung

    Aqualung Tasty

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    I believe in the Godhead, which has the Father, Son and Holy Ghost all being devine, and being united in purpose and intent, but not physically. After all, the Son was with the Father in the beginning.
     
  6. Linus

    Linus Well-Known Member

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    Interesting. Everyone in my church (including myself) believes in what we call the Godhead, but what that is is basically the Trinity. So i've always thought the two names were for the same thing. Has anyone else seen that?
     
  7. Quiddity

    Quiddity UndertheInfluenceofGiants

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    I contend that it is for the same thing. And always has been. The Godhead never meant 3 seperate beings.
     
  8. nutshell

    nutshell Well-Known Member

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    except before the council of N. right?
     
  9. Quiddity

    Quiddity UndertheInfluenceofGiants

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    Even before that.
     
  10. fromthe heart

    fromthe heart Well-Known Member

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    But do you not agree that pointing to the fact the Jesus was with God and was God in the beginning of it all that it means that the 3 are one given we all have a spirit? I'm not necessarily trying to prove the Godhead just that they are one in the Old as well as in the New testament which to me means that all of the commandments from the old testament weren't done away with when Jesus came to walk among us in that time...many feel that Jesus took away the commandments of old and replaced them with just 2 which encompass them all...but there were many commandments given in the old testament that God directed and given Jesus is God in part and still one doesn't that say that what was believed to be truth in the way we are to live in the old testament still is viable in the new testament because the Triune Godhead can not counterdict itself?
     
  11. Linus

    Linus Well-Known Member

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    Absolutely. But, I don't think Proverbs 8 quite accomplishes that. Proverbs 8 simply tells how God established wisdom before anything else existed. I think John 1:1, however, does establish that Jesus (the Word) was was God and was with God.

    The Old Covenant was done away with. Why do people still struggle with this concept?

    Collosians 2: 13When you were dead in your transgressions and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He made you alive together with Him, having forgiven us all our transgressions, 14having canceled out the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us, which was hostile to us; and He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross

    Ephesians 2: 14For He Himself is our peace, who made both groups into one and broke down the barrier of the dividing wall, 15by abolishing in His flesh the enmity, which is the Law of commandments contained in ordinances, so that in Himself He might make the two into one new man, thus establishing peace, 16and might reconcile them both in one body to God through the cross, by it having put to death the enmity.

    The New Testament is not a contradiction of the Old. It is a replacement and a fulfiillment. It isn't a case of God contradicting Himself, it's a case of God changing the requirements for us humans for salvation.
     
  12. michel

    michel Administrator Emeritus
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    I won't pretend to be learned; but to me, this continual "Godhead" vs "Trinity" "The Trinity doesn't appear in the scriptures" just seems to be nit-picking.


    I sincerely hope I have not upset anyone by saying that. It just seems to me (and who am I ?) that all this detracts from the 'main business'; that of worshiping, of being at one with God..but I guess I could be said to be simplistic about the whole matter. Whatever you call it (I must admit I am used to calling it 'The Trinity'), I am happy with the idea, and have a clear image of it in my own mind.;)
     
  13. Squirt

    Squirt Well-Known Member

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    Why do you say that? Where does the Bible say that the Godhead is just one being. If Jesus was a man on earth and prayed to His Father in Heaven, was He praying to Himself?
     
  14. Squirt

    Squirt Well-Known Member

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    Well, I won't pretend to be learned either, but since you have a clear imagine of the Trinity in your own mind, would you be willing to explain it to me so that I can also have a clear imagine of it? :D
     
  15. Aqualung

    Aqualung Tasty

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    And when he begged his father to let the cup pass from him (but not Jesus's will, sino the father's), was he pretty much asking himself to not do it, unless of course he himself willed otherwise? (if that even made sense...)
     
  16. fromthe heart

    fromthe heart Well-Known Member

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    I agree with most of what you are saying and perhaps I'm not being clear here I'm not saying there IS a contridiction between the old and the new...I was saying there wasn't any except that some think there is....as for the commandments being done away with I'm not so sure we agree on that in the sense that Jesus refered to these laws in His teachings as still to be followed..the old covenant WAS done away with but what was in it as our instructions to live weren't.

    As for your scripture pointing to Colossians 2:13...this was the grounding of our faith once we became believers and the character as believers becoming as a new man and what that character consisted of. It just means for believers to not reject the commandments of God but to live BY them...see Mark 7:9-13 where those who ignore the comandments for 'tradition'...also see the Beautides in Matthew 5:13-30 Jesus refers to these same comandments of Moses
     
  17. Linus

    Linus Well-Known Member

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    Jesus refered to the Law because he was a Jew. Moreover, he was a Jew who was teaching and preaching a message for Jews. Jesus was not a "Christian." He was Jewish, lived by Jewish law, and lived by it perfectly, thereby fulfilling It. Through this he rendered it useless (Col 2:14). What are you not seeing here?

    Coll. 2:13 does not focus on what I was trying to point out. I merely listed it there for the purpose of establishing some contxet. Look at verse 14. Read it carefully. What does it say to you?

    Jesus came not to reestablish the old law, but to instate a new one. MAtthew 5 emphasizes Christ's teachings. WHere he repeats several times, "you have heard it said...but I say..." (Mt. 5:27 & 28; 31 &32; 33 & 34; 38 & 39; 43 & 44). I refuse to believe for a second that Christ came just to remind everyone that we need to still live by the Law of Moses. He fulfilled that law rendering it useless, and replaced it with a perfect one (Hebrews 8; Colossians 2:14; Ephesians 2:15).
     
  18. writer

    writer Active Member

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    1 take devine intervention to save us from the lake of fire in the final judgment of us all.
    this wonderful intervention transpires b4 then

    13 Where does the Bible say that the Godhead is just one being
    Hear, O Israel, Jehovah's our God; Jehovah's one

    If Jesus was a man on earth and prayed to His Father in Heaven, was He praying to Himself?
    No, He was praying to His Father in heaven. His Father's also in Him (Jn 10:38)

    14 clear imagine of the Trinity in your own mind, would you be willing to explain it to me so that I can also have a clear imagine of it?
    The 3 in 1 desires we possess Him, inside. B4 know about Him, outside (Gen 1:26; 2:9, 16; Jn 6:57; 17:3)
     
  19. shema

    shema Active Member

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    Do you remember the movie Sybil? imagine if the older woman inside her sent the little girl inside her out of the body into new york city to get some meat from the grocery store and come right back. to the people in the city, she would be a little girl with her own name and personality. but to her therapist, she would be Sybil.
     
  20. writer

    writer Active Member

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    19 Do you remember the movie Sybil? imagine if the older woman inside her sent the little girl inside her out of the body into new york city to get some meat from the grocery store and come right back. to the people in the city, she would be a little girl with her own name and personality. but to her therapist, she would be Sybil.
    The Father, Son, and Spirit neither r, nor resemble, Sybil, nor Modalism.
    Rather: "He who sent Me is with Me; He has not left Me alone" (Jn 8:29)
     
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