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trinity, godhead, or neither

Discussion in 'Biblical Debates' started by Aqualung, Aug 24, 2005.

  1. Aqualung

    Aqualung Tasty

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    which is supported by the Bible? A trinity, of three facets of one God, which are the same in everything; a godhead of three seperate and distinct personages; or neither?
     
  2. Green Gaia

    Green Gaia Veteran Member

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    Well, the Unitarian is going to say neither. ;)

    Isn't the Trinity and the Godhead the same concept?
     
  3. Jensen

    Jensen Active Member

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    I'd say neither...God is one.
     
  4. Mister Emu

    Mister Emu Emu Extraordinaire
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    The trinity is fully supported by the Bible.
     
  5. Aqualung

    Aqualung Tasty

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    I'm not really a big trinity authority, but I think the concept is just different views of the same god, not three seperate things. some people may refer to that as a godhead, but godhead in my view is a concept of three seperate beings. They are not just three views of one god. They are seperate and distinct, though united it purpose.

    If you say that God is one, isn't that the trinity? Doesn't that make you beleive that God, Jesus, and the Holy Ghost are one God, but just different views or facets of the same God?
     
  6. Aqualung

    Aqualung Tasty

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    give the support, and tell how that means it's a trinity, and not a godhead.
     
  7. Green Gaia

    Green Gaia Veteran Member

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    From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia:
    :confused: So it is but it isn't.


    I think I'll go back to my unitarian corner and sit quietly.
     
  8. michel

    michel Administrator Emeritus
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    We like to use the word, Triune, or Triunity, instead of Trinity. I don't like that word myself. As I see it, Trinity deals with 3 Gods, while Triunity deals with 3 Gods as 1 God.
     
  9. Katzpur

    Katzpur Not your average Mormon

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    How so, Mister Emu? Where does the Bible describe God as a substance?
     
  10. Katzpur

    Katzpur Not your average Mormon

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    No, the "Godhead" is the Biblical term used to describe the unity of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost. The "Trinity" is the term devised in 325 A.D. to describe the way in which the Father, Son and Holy Ghost are united.
     
  11. Green Gaia

    Green Gaia Veteran Member

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    Yes, but I had always heard used interchangably, hence my confusion. So the Trinity is a description of the Godhead, but the Godhead is not always refered to as a Trinity? Help the poor Unitarian understand... lo.
     
  12. michel

    michel Administrator Emeritus
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    Maize, the Godhead (Colossians 2:9) and the Trinity (1 John 5:7) are one and the same. Its just that the word TRIUNE is a more descriptive term for TRINITY. Personally, being an AVphile, I prefer the term GODHEAD.
     
  13. jonny

    jonny Well-Known Member

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    I think the confusion comes from different definitions. If you believe in the trinity, you will have the same definition for trinity and godhead. Those of us who don't believe in the trinity, still use the word godhead, but with a different definition.

    For those who do not believe in the Trinity :
    Godhead = God the Father, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost (3 seperate and distinct beings)
    Trinity = God the Father, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghose (1 being)
     
  14. Green Gaia

    Green Gaia Veteran Member

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    Let's look at context, shall we? The Colossians had lost their focus on Christ (see Col. 1:15-20). Colossians 2:8 shows that the people were in danger of turning to "hollow and deceptive philosophy" rather than being focused on Christ. What could philosophy and traditions offer that Christ could not? The next verse is a reminder that there is no better place to turn for answers and for truth than to Christ, in whom all the fullness of God dwells. There is nothing in the context here that would warrant believing that Paul is writing about the Trinity. He is simply saying that if you want to find God, look to Christ.

    The fact that Christ has “all the fullness” of God does not make him God. Ephesians 3:19 says that Christians should be filled with “all the fullness of God,” and no one believes that would make each Christian God.


    1 John 5:7-8 For there are three that testify: the Spirit, the water and the blood; and the three are in agreement. (NIV)

    1 John 5:7-8 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one (KJV).

    Some English versions have a shorter rendition of 1 John 5:7 and 8 than the KJV quoted above. The King James Version has words that support the Trinity that most modern versions do not have. How can this be? The reason that there are different translations of this verse is that some Greek texts contain an addition that was not original, and that addition was placed into some English versions, such as the KJV (the words added to some Greek texts are underlined in the quotation above). The note in the NIV Study Bible, which is well known for its ardent belief in the Trinity, says, "The addition is not found in any Greek manuscript or NT translation prior to the 16th century."

    With the spurious addition gone, it is clear that there is no reference to the Trinity in 1 John 5:7 and 8. The context is speaking of believing that Jesus is the Son of God (v. 5 and 10). There are three that testify that Jesus is the Son of God: the spirit that Jesus received at his baptism, the water of his baptism and the blood that he shed.


    Source
     
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  15. michel

    michel Administrator Emeritus
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    Where does it say Christ has "all the fullness of God"?

    And I agree with the Ephesians passage. We need to be filled with all the fullness of God, but not the Godhead.
     
  16. James the Persian

    James the Persian Dreptcredincios Crestin

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    This is slightly bonkers. The word Trinity means precisely the same thing as triunity, it means three in one. We use the word triune as well, as in the phrase 'the Triune God', triune being the adjectival form of Trinity, but there's really no need to change the noun used - you're not gaining anything (except one superfluous vowel).

    One thing I have noticed on this thread is that two false understandings of what the Trinity doctrine is have come up. First, the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit are not aspects of one being - that belief is called modalism and is a monist rather than Trinitarian belief. Second, the three Divine Hypostases (usually, and poorly, translated into English as Persons) are not separate beings - that would be Tritheism. The actual doctrine of the Trinity is that God is one Essence in three Persons. This seems strange to us as a human being is one person, but nonetheless, that is what the Trinity says: God is one in three Persons. Every person we know here is one in Essence (that being their humanity) and one person (that being their actual self). God is uniquely Divine in Essence but is three unique Persons (actually, not really as the word Hypostasis does not mean what we mean by person as that includes their essence, but English doesn't have a better word for the concept).

    I have no idea whether this seems at all clear - it's a difficult concept to explain and I'm no theologian - but I hope that people will see the difference between the three positions outlined above.

    James
     
  17. eeyore

    eeyore New Member

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    I've always believed in a Godhead, which I've considered to be three distinct personages. God, Christ, and the Holy Ghost. I do believe they are one, but by "one" I mean, one in purpose and mind. The scriptures say that a man and a woman are to be one, just as the Father and Son are one. I can't imagine that means we're supposed to become one single being, but that we're supposed to become one in purpose and mind. To be unified. Just my opinion though.
     
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  18. may

    may Well-Known Member

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    As i do not believe in the trinity doctrine ,only on what the bible tells me , this scripture seems to spring to mind

    This means everlasting life, their taking in knowledge of you, the only true God, and of the one whom you sent forth, Jesus Christ John 17;3

    "You worship what you do not know; we worship what we know."—John 4:22 opps i think i better get my coat again.

     
  19. James the Persian

    James the Persian Dreptcredincios Crestin

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    Those word both be from the same book that tells us that the Word was with God was God and Incarnated as Jesus Christ, right?

    James
     
  20. Green Gaia

    Green Gaia Veteran Member

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    Colossians 2:9 For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form. (NIV)
     
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