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Trinitarians' interpretation of "us"

Polaris

Active Member
In Genesis 1:26 we read "And God said let US make man in OUR own image and after OUR likeness". To us non-trinitarians this makes perfect sense since we believe that both God the Father and Jesus Christ were involved in the creation. I'm curious though, how do trinitarians interperet the references to "us" and "our" in this passage?
 

Terrywoodenpic

Oldest Heretic
Polaris said:
In Genesis 1:26 we read "And God said let US make man in OUR own image and after OUR likeness". To us non-trinitarians this makes perfect sense since we believe that both God the Father and Jesus Christ were involved in the creation. I'm curious though, how do trinitarians interperet the references to "us" and "our" in this passage?

By not mis-interpreting language.
It was and still is normal language for Kings or Queens to speak of themselves as "us"and "our"
It was only natural to use that form when translating the Bible to refer to God speaking.
 

Halcyon

Lord of the Badgers
Terrywoodenpic said:
By not mis-interpreting language.
It was and still is normal language for Kings or Queens to speak of themselves as "us"and "our"
It was only natural to use that form when translating the Bible to refer to God speaking.
Strange how He doesn't do that throughout the bible though, don't you think?
 

writer

Active Member
3 Strange how He doesn't do that throughout the bible though, don't you think?
He duz. Father, Son, and Spirit. Triune God. Isaiah 6, for instance. And John 17.
The He is the Us (Gen 1:27, 26).
The Elohim plural created singular (1:1). God's not a barren sterile one. He's the Plural-One (Mt 28:19; etc etc etc)
 

athanasius

Well-Known Member
writer said:
3 Strange how He doesn't do that throughout the bible though, don't you think?
He duz. Father, Son, and Spirit. Triune God. Isaiah 6, for instance. And John 17.
The He is the Us (Gen 1:27, 26).
The Elohim plural created singular (1:1). God's not a barren sterile one. He's the Plural-One (Mt 28:19; etc etc etc)


I was always curious? When you use words like "Duz" or "Cuz" is this some kind of shorthand or do you really not know how to spell those words? No offense I just wandered.
 

Djamila

Bosnjakinja
Polaris said:
In Genesis 1:26 we read "And God said let US make man in OUR own image and after OUR likeness". To us non-trinitarians this makes perfect sense since we believe that both God the Father and Jesus Christ were involved in the creation. I'm curious though, how do trinitarians interperet the references to "us" and "our" in this passage?

I don't understand how you feel that passage supports your arguement? I'm not contradicting you, I just don't understand your reasoning.

I read it and think it makes perfect sense from a Christian, Trinitarian perspective. One God, referring to Himself as "Us" and "Our" - One God, in a Trinity...
 

Polaris

Active Member
Terrywoodenpic said:
By not mis-interpreting language.
It was and still is normal language for Kings or Queens to speak of themselves as "us"and "our"
It was only natural to use that form when translating the Bible to refer to God speaking.

I agree with Halycon. Your suggestion would carry a little more credibility if it was consistant throughout the scriptures. In almost every instance God makes reference to himself with a singular pronoun ("I am the Lord thy God").
 

Polaris

Active Member
Djamila said:
I don't understand how you feel that passage supports your arguement? I'm not contradicting you, I just don't understand your reasoning.

I read it and think it makes perfect sense from a Christian, Trinitarian perspective. One God, referring to Himself as "Us" and "Our" - One God, in a Trinity...

As stated already, almost everywhere else in scripture where God refers to himself he does so with a singular pronoun. Why would he all of a sudden do differently in this case?
 

Halcyon

Lord of the Badgers
writer said:
3 Strange how He doesn't do that throughout the bible though, don't you think?
He duz. Father, Son, and Spirit. Triune God. Isaiah 6, for instance. And John 17.
The He is the Us (Gen 1:27, 26).
The Elohim plural created singular (1:1). God's not a barren sterile one. He's the Plural-One (Mt 28:19; etc etc etc)
Sure Elohim is used throughout the bible, along with various other names for God, but only in Genesis 1 is it translated as the "Royal We", nowhere else.
 

Djamila

Bosnjakinja
Polaris said:
As stated already, almost everywhere else in scripture where God refers to himself he does so with a singular pronoun. Why would he all of a sudden do differently in this case?

Because one of the hundreds of people over the centuries who've translated the Bible from whichever language into the next made a mistake?

I still understand how that suggests in any way anything about the Trinity, either way, and certainly not against it.
 

Booko

Deviled Hen
Polaris said:
In Genesis 1:26 we read "And God said let US make man in OUR own image and after OUR likeness". To us non-trinitarians this makes perfect sense since we believe that both God the Father and Jesus Christ were involved in the creation. I'm curious though, how do trinitarians interperet the references to "us" and "our" in this passage?

Uh, well not all of us non-Trinitarians fit into this decription, but since Terry already mentioned the language convention of the "imperial We" I won't repeat what he said. ;)
 

Polaris

Active Member
Djamila said:
Because one of the hundreds of people over the centuries who've translated the Bible from whichever language into the next made a mistake?

So it was a translation mistake? OK that's fair. I'll admit that may be a possibility.

Djamila said:
I still understand how that suggests in any way anything about the Trinity, either way, and certainly not against it.

If it wasn't an error in translation then it suggests that more than one being was involved in the creation process. Who other than God would that be? For non-trinitarians the answer is simple -- Jesus Christ. For trinitarians the answer is likely a little different, and I wanted to find out their thoughts.
 

Booko

Deviled Hen
Halcyon said:
Strange how He doesn't do that throughout the bible though, don't you think?
Not necessarily, especially since the Bible is an anthology rather than 2 books stuck together (for the Christians, anyway).

The thing is, if you have different authors writing to different audiences in different times and cultures for different purposes, it's hardly surprising if there are differences in writing styles.
 

Polaris

Active Member
Booko said:
Uh, well not all of us non-Trinitarians fit into this decription, but since Terry already mentioned the language convention of the "imperial We" I won't repeat what he said. ;)

Sorry, I should have said "many non-trinitarians". So what is your interpretation of this passage? What is meant by the "imperial We"? Who is the "us" referring to?
 

Booko

Deviled Hen
Polaris said:
So it was a translation mistake? OK that's fair. I'll admit that may be a possibility.

I think it's worth pointing out at this time that not everyone is reading Genesis in translation.

Not that I read Hebrew, but the Jews just read the original, so there's no "translation error" from their pov.

If it wasn't an error in translation then it suggests that more than one being was involved in the creation process.

Uh, yeah? Biblical scholars are pretty clear that Biblical texts (even if you just look at the Tenach and not the NT) are written by different authors. Even within a "book" sometimes it's an amalgamation of different sources.

Who other than God would that be? For non-trinitarians the answer is simple -- Jesus Christ. For trinitarians the answer is likely a little different, and I wanted to find out their thoughts.

Neither Jesus nor God penned anything directly. Where different humans are involved, it's not surprising to find...differences.

Even writing something as cut and dried as software documentation I could go through the final copy and tell you which of the employees in the doc unit had written which sections, and they were all writing to the common "standards."

There were no "writing standards" for Biblical texts.
 

Booko

Deviled Hen
Polaris said:
Sorry, I should have said "many non-trinitarians". So what is your interpretation of this passage? What is meant by the "imperial We"? Who is the "us" referring to?

What Terry said. It's just a use of the "imperial We."

It reflects the majesty of God, among other things, so I'd say it's fair to translate it in that way.

After all, it doesn't get more "imperial" than God, eh? ;)
 

Polaris

Active Member
Booko said:
I think it's worth pointing out at this time that not everyone is reading Genesis in translation.

Not that I read Hebrew, but the Jews just read the original, so there's no "translation error" from their pov.



Uh, yeah? Biblical scholars are pretty clear that Biblical texts (even if you just look at the Tenach and not the NT) are written by different authors. Even within a "book" sometimes it's an amalgamation of different sources.



Neither Jesus nor God penned anything directly. Where different humans are involved, it's not surprising to find...differences.

Even writing something as cut and dried as software documentation I could go through the final copy and tell you which of the employees in the doc unit had written which sections, and they were all writing to the common "standards."

There were no "writing standards" for Biblical texts.

I think we're on different pages here. I'm referring to the creation of the earth and man as described in Genesis. I'm not referring to the creation of the Bible.
 

roli

Born Again,Spirit Filled
Polaris said:
In Genesis 1:26 we read "And God said let US make man in OUR own image and after OUR likeness". To us non-trinitarians this makes perfect sense since we believe that both God the Father and Jesus Christ were involved in the creation. I'm curious though, how do trinitarians interperet the references to "us" and "our" in this passage?
God = 'elohiym {el-o-heem'} in the hebrew

a) rulers, judges
b) divine ones
c) angels d) gods
Elohiym is used over 2000 times in the scriptures referring to a plural form of God
Gen 1:1In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
Gen 1:2And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness [was] upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
Col 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether [they be] thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
Jhn 1:1In the beginning was the Word, (Jesus)and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.Jhn 1:14And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
 

Polaris

Active Member
Booko said:
What Terry said. It's just a use of the "imperial We."

It reflects the majesty of God, among other things, so I'd say it's fair to translate it in that way.

After all, it doesn't get more "imperial" than God, eh? ;)

I don't think I made myself very clear. Who is the "us" referring to when in Genesis it says "let US make man in our image"?
 

Polaris

Active Member
roli said:
God = 'elohiym {el-o-heem'} in the hebrew

a) rulers, judges
b) divine ones
c) angels d) gods
Elohiym is used over 2000 times in the scriptures referring to a plural form of God
Gen 1:1In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
Gen 1:2And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness [was] upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
Col 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether [they be] thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
Jhn 1:1In the beginning was the Word, (Jesus)and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.Jhn 1:14And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

Actually I've heard it explained that Elohim can be interpreted as both plural and singular. Either way, in none of the verses that you mentioned is God making reference to himself. In almost every instance that I'm aware of in which God references himself he uses the pronoun "I". For some reason this particular passage he uses the pronoun "us". I suggest that it's because there were more than one being involved in the creation.
 
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