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Featured Trinitarian? Sure, sort of

Discussion in 'Same Faith Debates' started by Desert Snake, Aug 23, 2019.

  1. Desert Snake

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    Yes, and therefore we read the Scripture as written from a perspective. I'm talking about Theism, God belief, who God is.
     
  2. leov

    leov Well-Known Member
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    Here is the first ever comment on Gospel of St. John, by Valentinian Heracleon , fwiw, Heracleon - Commentary on the Gospel of John
    The First Thought,
     
  3. leov

    leov Well-Known Member
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    You mean the current Christian Theism?
     
  4. lostwanderingsoul

    lostwanderingsoul Well-Known Member

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    In the beginning the Word was with God and the Word was God. The Word became flesh and dwelt among men. The Word in human form was Jesus. The Word was God. Jesus was God.
     
  5. leov

    leov Well-Known Member
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    Did you hear about hierarchy of angels. Greek word for God can apply to many of those.
     
  6. lostwanderingsoul

    lostwanderingsoul Well-Known Member

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    I am not sure if God is Greek.
     
  7. leov

    leov Well-Known Member
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    That was language they used In NT, so, we have to sort it out...
     
  8. MikeDwight

    MikeDwight Active Member

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    Hananim is Greek.
    22 Paul then stood up in the meeting of the Areopagus and said: “People of Athens! I see that in every way you are very religious. 23 For as I walked around and looked carefully at your objects of worship, I even found an altar with this inscription: to an unknown god. So you are ignorant of the very thing you worship—and this is what I am going to proclaim to you. Acts 17:22
     
    #48 MikeDwight, Aug 23, 2019
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2019
  9. Desert Snake

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    This
    Doesn't match

    This
     
  10. steveb1

    steveb1 Member

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    Of course they match because both cite the NT Jesus. The Epistles know nothing of a historical Jesus, the Gospels created Jesus as a historical person. Simple.
     
  11. steveb1

    steveb1 Member

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    I know exactly what John's Jesus means when he says in John 17:3:

    "You [Father] are the only true God".

    "Only" means only;
    "True" means true;
    "God" means God.

    It's you who don't understand how the word is used, which is why what you're saying makes no sense.
     
  12. Desert Snake

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    Then why would your argument be about a real yeshua, saying he isn't g-d?
     
  13. steveb1

    steveb1 Member

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    If saying Jesus is not God is a lie, then the NT is a lie because, as I've shown but you've ignored, it never thinks of Jesus as God. Son of God, yes. God the Son, never.
     
  14. Desert Snake

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    What? Your argument is saying two different things
    • not real yeshua, angel or something
    • real yeshua saying he isn't g-d

    Which is it?
    Thry contradict each other
     
  15. steveb1

    steveb1 Member

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    No contradiction.

    The Epistles treat Jesus as a great archangelic being, not God.

    The Gospels treat Jesus as a human being - not God - who was spirit-filled and rewarded with resurrection.

    Simple. And neither the Gospels nor the Epistles identify Jesus as God. I don't understand what is confusing you.
     
  16. steveb1

    steveb1 Member

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    You're confusing the Gospel Jesus with a "real" Jesus. The Gospel Jesus is a literary invention, and only "real" in the sense that Captain Ahab is real.

    The Epistles believe in a real Jesus, but that Jesus was only a heavenly being who never lived on earth.

    The Epistles believed in a celestial but real Jesus.
    The Gospels invented an earthly but mythical Jesus.
     
  17. Desert Snake

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    You also said the word 'g-d' contextually would be non specific, so yes there is a problem with your contradiction.
    Besides just being contradictions, [not how to argue that.

    You have a vague deity, also, as you've added gnosticism into the hodge podge of statements concerning this.
     
  18. Desert Snake

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    Celestial what? You said 'not g-d'.
     
  19. Desert Snake

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    'Celestial', yet 'not g-d'

    Ok, what then?
     
  20. steveb1

    steveb1 Member

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    As I said, an angelic being like Paul's self-emptying "Son", the Gospels' Son of Man who lives in the clouds, a godlike (not God) being like Philo of Alexandria's "Logos", a God-representative angel like the Angel of the Lord, the Angel of the Presence, Yahoel, Metatron and any number of other celestial but not divine figures.
     
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