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Featured Trinitarian? Sure, sort of

Discussion in 'Same Faith Debates' started by Desert Snake, Aug 23, 2019.

  1. Desert Snake

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    Because the Lord manifests,
    John 1:10

    John 1:1
    John 1:10

    Matthew 1:20

    If you are reading your Bible, the Lord manifests as Jesus, He's God.

    Type of Triune, I don't believe the Spirit to be a separate person, nor a person, nor the aspects of God, to be distinct as described by some theologians.
     
  2. lostwanderingsoul

    lostwanderingsoul Well-Known Member

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    The main problem I have with the belief that God is a trinity is that it forever limits God to three persons. But God wants to adopt millions of sons and daughters into His family. These adopted children will inherit the same things that Jesus will inherit. They will become part of "God". God is NOT limited to three persons. God will one day consist of millions of adopted "persons". This amazing oportunity that humans have is hidden from people who believe God is forever a trinity. That is the kind of knowledge that Satan does not want people to know about so he has created false religious beliefs like the trinity. You and I and millions of others can one day join God in His family which will be much more than just three persons. IMO
     
  3. steveb1

    steveb1 Member

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    The NT does not consider Jesus to be "God", so Trinitarianism is not supported by scripture.

    Even in John's Gospel, Jesus explicitly excludes himself from the Godhead when he calls God "you, the only true God". John 1:1 does not call Jesus God - it says that the Logos/Word is God, but Jesus is not the Word. Jesus was not in the beginning with God because Jesus only came to be when he took on a human nature ("became flesh"), so it is illogical and unbiblical to call Jesus "God" without qualification. In John, Jesus has a God and prays to God, whereas God does not have a God and God cannot pray to himself. The NT Jesus is only the Son of God, and never "God the Son".

    Moreover, if the NT thinks Jesus is God, it would be replete with prayer to Jesus as to God, but it isn't. Only God is addressed in NT prayer, "in Jesus's name" or "through Jesus your Son". NT prayer is never addressed to Jesus as to God, which means that the NT does not view Jesus as God.
     
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  4. leov

    leov Well-Known Member
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    Jesus sets example how a man becomes part of the Kingdom. because Jesus went to the Father, I can go to the Father If I follow Jesus's teaching.
     
  5. Desert Snake

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    James 1:27
     
  6. Desert Snake

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    Jesus, is the manifestation of the Lord,
    John 1:10,
    Who is called God,
    John 1:1
    Jesus is therefore God , as a incarnation, since in Spirit form, the persona of Jesus, is the Lord.
    'Lord God'.
     
  7. steveb1

    steveb1 Member

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    Yeah, salvation in and through Jesus is a basic Christian teaching. What I'm saying is that the NT never unambiguously calls Jesus "God".
     
  8. steveb1

    steveb1 Member

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    I understand it better than you, otherwise you could have refuted my factual NT citations proving that Jesus explicitly excludes himself from the Godhead in John 17:3 where he calls the Father "you, the only true God".

    You failed to answer how God can pray to God (Jesus prayed to God) and why NT prayer is never addressed to Jesus as God.

    Until you can refute those points, you're the one who doesn't understand scripture.
     
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  9. steveb1

    steveb1 Member

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    Charity is also a foundational principle of Christian belief, but James 1:27 says nothing about Jesus being "God", which is the subject of this thread.
     
  10. Desert Snake

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    The same way you are interpreting other verses, the 'and', to mean, not g-d, is how you are interpreting that verse to not mean, Jesus. So, your general argument has a problem, because you are 'interpreting' the verses as an argument.
     
  11. steveb1

    steveb1 Member

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    That statement is indecipherable to me. If you're saying that the NT unambiguously calls Jesus "God", then you should provide pertinent texts that prove Jesus's deity, not a peripheral text from James that recommends charity.
     
  12. Desert Snake

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    You didn't read the premise, or something.

    The incarnation is Jesus, in Israel, the incarnation, is of The Lord, which makes Jesus God.

    Why? Because this isn't "possession", it's an incarnation.
    John 1:10
     
  13. Desert Snake

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    I did, since you don't understand the religion, you didn't understand the verses.
     
  14. leov

    leov Well-Known Member
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    " Thru" following His example, as Jesus said himself. Not by but thru.
     
  15. steveb1

    steveb1 Member

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    Jesus rejects incarnation in John 17:3 when he explicitly excludes himself from the Godhead when he calls the Father "you, the only true God".

    If you want to say that Jesus was "Spirit-filled" or that the Word was present in him, that would be okay, but you're saying that Jesus was God because God "manifested" in him. If that's the principle you go by, then all people who manifest God are also God like Jesus. Which doesn't support the supposed uniqueness of Jesus.
     
  16. steveb1

    steveb1 Member

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    But of course the NT teaches all three - salvation is
    by Jesus
    in Jesus
    through Jesus

    They don't contradict each other.

    And in any case, you haven't provided any proof that the NT calls Jesus "God", which is the subject of this thread.
     
  17. Desert Snake

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    James is Judaic. In that verse, he is using 'g-d', for Jesus, because, both the Lord, & the Abba, are called 'God'. It's interchangeable. 'Lord God' means one God, like saying Elohim, in a singular sense.

    This isn't your religion, you already have left a religion, that you never understood, in the first place. It's time to move on.
     
  18. leov

    leov Well-Known Member
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    Two description of the same thing. Yeah. Christian world mistaken that they saved by resurrection .of Jesus but really by the fact that Jesus
    had Christ Within
     
  19. steveb1

    steveb1 Member

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    It's time for you to move on from your wacky cult view that James is calling Jesus "God". Jesus himself in John's Gospel explains that calling people "gods" is permissible, as when his Jewish questioners called the ancient Israelite heroes "gods".

    Similarly with "Lord", the term was not only used of God, but also of the Messiah, kings of Israel, and even Gentile officials.

    You still have not shown that the NT calls Jesus God, whereas Jesus himself excludes himself from the Godhead in John 17:3. Yep...definitely time for you to move on.
     
  20. steveb1

    steveb1 Member

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    Right, they mean similar things. Agreed that no one is "saved" by Jesus's resurrection. The standard Pauline theory is that they are "saved" by Jesus's Passion and death - his "Atonement" for our sins.
     
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