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Trend in RF

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
It seems like nearly everyone nowadays wants to surround themselves with people who agree with them. On college campuses, they can't even listen to speakers espouse opinions different than their own these days. Where will it all end?

My guess is it will not end well.
I noticed a lot of silence last time we traveled through your country. Everyone is scared to even talk about it.
 

Marcion

gopa of humanity's controversial Taraka Brahma
This whole forum is based around the idea that there are different (separated) religions and that paths that don't conform to this idea are somehow odd. So it is only natural that people will start behaving as though they have something (some ideological territory) to defend. Even some Hindus here do that. If the forum had a different more broad-minded set-up, this bickering I'm sure would happen much less.
 

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
I'll try to stay myself, but my moral compass is a bit different than most people's. For example, it does take quiet time or humor, to refuel my energy tanks. My only pet peeves are boringness and medieval-style ideas.
I have that as well, the need to take a break and refuel, and I suspect many people do.
 

PoetPhilosopher

Veteran Member
I have that as well, the need to take a break and refuel, and I suspect many people do.

I didn't mean to imply I'd leave needing a break. But I might have implied that you might see me a lot less in serious discussions some day, and more talking 3-4 hours a day in the Jokes section.
 

Sunstone

De Diablo Del Fora
Premium Member
I noticed a lot of silence last time we traveled through your country. Everyone is scared to even talk about it.

I think that's quite true. Jerry Coyne -- who is safely retired -- is one of the few academics consistently raising hell about it.
 

Brickjectivity

Turned to Stone. Now I stretch daily.
Staff member
Premium Member
It look like there has become a trend in RF to have threads that want to degenerate religions and spiritual life, is this form not a religious form any more? Somehow it look like the form has become a forum for people to find fault in every religion they can. And make "fun" of those who take their religion seriously.

And if someone disagree in certain topic then they are bad people?
I would like to hear ideas about how we can improve this. The goal of the forum is not being met perfectly. Its mission, written in rule 9, is to provide a civil environment for discussion and debate. I think we are not there, yet. We can keep trying different things.
 

Marcion

gopa of humanity's controversial Taraka Brahma
I would like to hear ideas about how we can improve this. The goal of the forum is not being met perfectly. Its mission, written in rule 9, is to provide a civil environment for discussion and debate. I think we are not there, yet. We can keep trying different things.
Rename the forum and no longer oganize it around the idea of different religions. This new frame will automatically bring people in a more cooperative mood.
 

PoetPhilosopher

Veteran Member
I would like to hear ideas about how we can improve this. The goal of the forum is not being met perfectly. Its mission, written in rule 9, is to provide a civil environment for discussion and debate. I think we are not there, yet. We can keep trying different things.

It's a complicated issue I think. There needs to be a way to please the best interests of Amanaki and others who feel this way, without introducing new site-wide rules which may actually increase the tensions between groups, because I have a hunch they might. What if there was like another board with special rules and covers the more general aspects of discussion but limits the amount of hardness toward religious ideas? Kind of like expanding out Interfaith maybe?

You'd have to ask the OP, though. I can't speak for him.
 

Quagmire

Imaginary talking monkey
Staff member
Premium Member
I would like to hear ideas about how we can improve this. The goal of the forum is not being met perfectly. Its mission, written in rule 9, is to provide a civil environment for discussion and debate. I think we are not there, yet. We can keep trying different things.
I think we need to figure out how to attract more Amish people.
Ever notice how our Amish members never give us any trouble?
 

icehorse

......unaffiliated...... anti-dogmatist
Premium Member
Do you try to sidestep my OP? You do know i dont talk about sci-fi figures.
And again. I do not talk about someone attacking me personally, they attack religion in it self. But if a person is not religious why bother with what religious people say or do? it is their life to follow a religion. Atheists are not within a religion and would hence not be a part of the religious rules or guidelines. So yes some religious people do wrong too in saying bad about non belivers. But this thread is about why must non belivers "attack" belivers and their religion?

I don't care what people believe in their own homes as long as no one is getting hurt. But I care very much when religious people try to bend society to fit their particular religious beliefs. As soon as that happens freedom of religion starts to erode, and freedom FROM religion starts to erode.
 

BilliardsBall

Veteran Member
It look like there has become a trend in RF to have threads that want to degenerate religions and spiritual life, is this form not a religious form any more? Somehow it look like the form has become a forum for people to find fault in every religion they can. And make "fun" of those who take their religion seriously.

And if someone disagree in certain topic then they are bad people?

You are correct! I constantly demonstrate to the un-spiritual their folly and meaningless arguments, however, I never denigrate the heathen unless they, in my eyes, deserve it. I LOVE the little heathens out there!
 

dybmh

דניאל יוסף בן מאיר הירש
It looks very much like it is a trend to talk down on beliefs that example say Homosexuality is a sin or that it shows less moral to act out the homosexual part in life.

My Friend, to me, this is what you want to talk about. The idea of whether or not this is a "religious forum" is not. So I will focus my reply on this.

I am going to be blunt and honest with you. And I'm sorry if this seems unpleasant. This is how it looks to me:

It seems like ( correct me if I'm wrong ):

1) Your cultivation path teaches that "Homosexuality is a sin and that it is less moral to act out the homosexual part in life".

2) You think the world would be a better place, people would suffer less, if everyone followed your cultivation path.

You don't say either of these things overtly, but you do believe them. That is how it appears.

Why don't you say them overtly? I think you are trying to be humble. I think you are trying to be nice. But because you want to share, you want to help, there is a conflict. The conflict is, You want to tell, but you don't want to tell.

The conflict is stressful, and your true intentions leak out sometimes. This happened recently when you called homosexual behavior "unnatural".

Listen, I am your friend. And I have always been honest with you. I have been 100% honest in every single conversation we have had. And that means when I say, I am your friend. You can believe it. Whether or not you accept my friendship, is a choice. And I understand if you choose not to accept it.

Being 100% honest also means, when I say, I am not attacking you. I promise, I am not attacking you.

When I say I'm trying to help you. I mean it.

Because i have gotten to know you, and I have some knowledge of your cultivation path, I know that doing harm is an anchor.

And if I see that you are doing harm, I have to decide, "Should I tell my friend, or should I remain silent."

And if I see that there are other attachments, that you are not aware of, I have to decide, "Should I tell my friend, or should I remain silent."

In the situation of seeing you doing harm to others, I need to consider those who are being harmed. I cannot ignore it. Perhaps that is my own flaw, or perhaps it is a virtue? I am still trying to figure that out.

But in the most recent situation where you used the word "unnatural". I felt the harm done to others by your statement, far outweighed the harm I might do you by pointing it out.

It was a judgement, and maybe I was wrong. I don't know.

But what I do know is this: I was not attacking you. But you said you felt attacked. The issue of homosexual behavior is something you have spoken against before, and it has been brought up as an example here in this thread.

You want to be humble, you don't want to do harm, you want to share your knowledge, and you want to help people.

In order to be humble, do no harm, share your knowledge, and help people ( all four at the same time ) you need to be more careful about when, how, and to whom you you express your opinions about homosexuality. That specific topic needs extra sensitivity.

Going back to the OP.

Why do people react in the way you are observing? Because asserting that homosexual behavior is unnatural, or even implying that it is unnatural, is ( as I said before ) **very painful**. Religious systems that assert this often cause harm.

I hope that this explains why, people react the way that they do to your words and the words of others. It is because, sometimes, those words are harmful.
 

PoetPhilosopher

Veteran Member

depression-quote-hp-75-1.jpg
 

PoetPhilosopher

Veteran Member
My Friend, to me, this is what you want to talk about. The idea of whether or not this is a "religious forum" is not. So I will focus my reply on this.

I am going to be blunt and honest with you. And I'm sorry if this seems unpleasant. This is how it looks to me:

It seems like ( correct me if I'm wrong ):

1) Your cultivation path teaches that "Homosexuality is a sin and that it is less moral to act out the homosexual part in life".

2) You think the world would be a better place, people would suffer less, if everyone followed your cultivation path.

You don't say either of these things overtly, but you do believe them. That is how it appears.

Why don't you say them overtly? I think you are trying to be humble. I think you are trying to be nice. But because you want to share, you want to help, there is a conflict. The conflict is, You want to tell, but you don't want to tell.

The conflict is stressful, and your true intentions leak out sometimes. This happened recently when you called homosexual behavior "unnatural".

Listen, I am your friend. And I have always been honest with you. I have been 100% honest in every single conversation we have had. And that means when I say, I am your friend. You can believe it. Whether or not you accept my friendship, is a choice. And I understand if you choose not to accept it.

Being 100% honest also means, when I say, I am not attacking you. I promise, I am not attacking you.

When I say I'm trying to help you. I mean it.

Because i have gotten to know you, and I have some knowledge of your cultivation path, I know that doing harm is an anchor.

And if I see that you are doing harm, I have to decide, "Should I tell my friend, or should I remain silent."

And if I see that there are other attachments, that you are not aware of, I have to decide, "Should I tell my friend, or should I remain silent."

In the situation of seeing you doing harm to others, I need to consider those who are being harmed. I cannot ignore it. Perhaps that is my own flaw, or perhaps it is a virtue? I am still trying to figure that out.

But in the most recent situation where you used the word "unnatural". I felt the harm done to others by your statement, far outweighed the harm I might do you by pointing it out.

It was a judgement, and maybe I was wrong. I don't know.

But what I do know is this: I was not attacking you. But you said you felt attacked. The issue of homosexual behavior is something you have spoken against before, and it has been brought up as an example here in this thread.

You want to be humble, you don't want to do harm, you want to share your knowledge, and you want to help people.

In order to be humble, do no harm, share your knowledge, and help people ( all four at the same time ) you need to be more careful about when, how, and to whom you you express your opinions about homosexuality. That specific topic needs extra sensitivity.

Going back to the OP.

Why do people react in the way you are observing? Because asserting that homosexual behavior is unnatural, or even implying that it is unnatural, is ( as I said before ) **very painful**. Religious systems that assert this often cause harm.

I hope that this explains why, people react the way that they do to your words and the words of others. It is because, sometimes, those words are harmful.

The post is true to the extent of, if someone doesn't truly 100% support LGBTQ+, they shouldn't pretend they do. Because us LGBTQ+s have a near-perfect radar for seeing what a person thinks inwardly about a subject.

That being said, I'm an LGBTQ+, and I say, pecan pie for everyone - the OP included. OP gets two slices, as life can be hard.
 

sealchan

Well-Known Member
I am not talking about confirmation of own belief, i have no doubt in my own belief, What i talking about is when someone in discussions or in debate talk trash about religion because some if not all religion has some moral rules that should be followed, and it is the "should" that seem to be a problem, because people do not want to be told what to do if following that religion. or what is expected of the practitioners.

The should has historically been reinforced by death for failure. And many find the should to be an excuse for all kinds of unkindness and immorality.

The should should come from within and be something one is personally held accountable for. This is why in modern society religion often deservedly gets thrashed.
 

sealchan

Well-Known Member
Again it is not this I talking about.
What I trying to get forth is the constant negativity about how religions do their things, especially from people who do not follow that religion. It looks very much like it is a trend to talk down on beliefs that example say Homosexuality is a sin or that it shows less moral to act out the homosexual part in life.
But what people seem to not understand, those religious texts that say something like that, is NOT toward atheists who are homosexual, or about people in general who are homosexual, it is meant to say. if you are following example Christianity, it is ok to be homosexual, but one can not practice both being Christian and doing the act of same-gender sex. But if one dare to say this things one get almost harassed for being evil

This is because it is morally wrong and deeply hurtful to say such a thing and then to try and justify it with religious belief.

I'm sorry but yes this is offensive and should be strongly condemned.
 

sealchan

Well-Known Member
I am not talking about confirmation of own belief, i have no doubt in my own belief, What i talking about is when someone in discussions or in debate talk trash about religion because some if not all religion has some moral rules that should be followed, and it is the "should" that seem to be a problem, because people do not want to be told what to do if following that religion. or what is expected of the practitioners.

I think that if you find yourself on the wrong end of courtesy regarding a particular topic that you consider walking a mile in the persons shoes...listen to the perspective of those whom your polite beliefs are crossing. You may find that your personal beliefs are triggers or warning signs of danger to others. Then naivete can be educated.
 
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