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Tree of Life and Knowledge

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by Fool, Jan 23, 2019.

  1. Fool

    Fool ALL in all
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    Genesis 2:9
    And out of the ground made the Lord God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.


    are the two trees one tree depending on the view of the observer, monistic vs dualistic, or are they two separate trees?
     
  2. Deeje

    Deeje Avid Bible Student
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    There are clearly two trees. One is off limits, the other is not. One will lead to death...the other to everlasting life.

    When the first humans took the fruit of TKGE, they automatically disqualified themselves from eating of the tree of life. Spiritual death followed....physical death took time as sin consumed them and the only means to keep them from dying was out of reach. (Genesis 3:22-24)
     
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  3. Thief

    Thief Rogue Theologian

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    both were declared off limits

    the tree of knowledge was a test
    we passed

    the tree of life was forbidden altogether
     
  4. Fool

    Fool ALL in all
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    dualism leads to death monism leads to everlasting life.


    isha upanishad verse 11
    He who knows That as both in one, the Knowledge and the Ignorance, by the Ignorance crosses beyond death and by the Knowledge enjoys Immortality


    Daniel 12:2
    And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.


    gospel of thomas
    verse 11
    11. Jesus said, "This heaven will pass away, and the one above it will pass away.

    The dead are not alive, and the living will not die. During the days when you ate what is dead, you made it come alive. When you are in the light, what will you do? On the day when you were one, you became two. But when you become two, what will you do?"


    verse 22
    22. Jesus saw some babies nursing. He said to his disciples, "These nursing babies are like those who enter the (Father's) kingdom."

    They said to him, "Then shall we enter the (Father's) kingdom as babies?"

    Jesus said to them, "When you make the two into one, and when you make the inner like the outer and the outer like the inner, and the upper like the lower, and when you make male and female into a single one, so that the male will not be male nor the female be female, when you make eyes in place of an eye, a hand in place of a hand, a foot in place of a foot, an image in place of an image, then you will enter [the kingdom]."
     
    #4 Fool, Jan 23, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2019
  5. whirlingmerc

    whirlingmerc Well-Known Member

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    I think two separate trees.

    Ultimately the man who is a tree of life is Jesus.
     
  6. Earthling

    Earthling David Henson
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    You surprised me with the term "spiritual death." Could you elaborate somewhat on that? I don't recall Watchtower literature having put it that way in application to TKGE. Not that they haven't, I just don't recall it. Are we in that same state of spiritual death until some time in the past, present or future?
     
  7. Deeje

    Deeje Avid Bible Student
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    When the Bible speaks of "spiritual death" it means being in a state of separation from God. The NT uses the term "dead in your trespasses and sins"...something that describes Adam and his wife after they cut ties with their spiritual life preserver.

    However, those who are 'spiritually dead' can come to 'life' if there is genuine remorse and a basis upon which to forgive them. All of Adam's children inherited sin from him, so Jesus gave his life as the basis for God to forgive them. (Ephesians 2:1-5)

    There was not a single word of remorse from either Adam or his wife, once God had passed sentence on them. They had each blamed someone else for what they did initially...Adam even indirectly blamed God for giving him the woman. o_O So they knew there was no forgiveness possible. There was no sinful nature to blame, and perfect beings do not make mistakes. That is why our first parents paid with their lives...they will never be seen again. I believe that will also apply to all who emulate them in unrepentant disobedience.
     
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  8. wellwisher

    wellwisher Active Member

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    Tree of Knowledge of good and evil is symbolic of law. If you were to go to a lawyer office and look at the law stack, the root and trunk of the tree is the Constitution.It then branches out from there, the leaves changing with the times as though a living tree.

    The Tree of Life is connected to natural human instinct. Instincts are morally neutral since they act in the moment on impulse, based on eons of programming within the DNA, designed to maximize survival and utility. Instinct is adaptive to a changing environment building experience in memory; neural type tree.

    The problem with law, is law was not made for the righteous man, but rather for the criminals and sinners. A good person does not need law since they will try to do what is right. However, law is forced upon everyone, both the good and evil, as though even the good man has to be treated as being potentially evil. This is original sin. Law assumes we are all potentially evil, since nobody is exempt, even if you are not evil. Although money and power can make you exempt from the law, even if you are evil. It is a diseased tree. The assumption we are all evil and not exempt from law is the Satan connection to this tree.

    The power of sin is the law. Sin is not imputed where there is no law. For example, most states in the US had marijuana laws in the past. If you used marijuana in the past you were a sinner worthy of punishment. Now many states have repealed this law. Without the law the same behavior is no longer a sin; magical. Tree of life does not create laws, but rather is more like a creative platform for behavior, that works without magically adding group sins.
     
  9. Thief

    Thief Rogue Theologian

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    so then.....sooooooo ironic

    that He be nailed to a tree of death
     
  10. Fool

    Fool ALL in all
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    the key to knowledge, know for self, is the same key as:


    Isaiah 22:22
    And the key of the house of David will I lay upon his shoulder; so he shall open, and none shall shut; and he shall shut, and none shall open.


    Luke 11:52
    Woe unto you, lawyers! for ye have taken away the key of knowledge: ye entered not in yourselves, and them that were entering in ye hindered.


    unseals books, unlocks books

    Revelation 5:2
    And I saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice, Who is worthy to open the book, and to loose the seals thereof?


    L-O-V-E is the key


    compassion, mercy, charity, tenderness, affection


    love opens doors behold i stand at the door and knock and they that which opens its door to me opens to love. behold the prostitutes and tax collectors are entering the kingdom of heaven before you.


     
  11. Earthling

    Earthling David Henson
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    Yes, thank you for that answer. I find it interesting, I think, because I have only recently become fully aware of the idea that there always was a separation from God. From creation on. As you undoubtedly are aware, it was Michael who likely walked in the garden with Adam. Not Jehovah himself. I had always known this in some sense, but only after reflecting on the seventh day of rest which David and then Paul said we have not entered into I began to realize more fully how there has always been this separation.
     
  12. whirlingmerc

    whirlingmerc Well-Known Member

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    Jesus is the tree of life

    After the parting of the red sea they came to a pool of bitter water and Moses was told to throw in a log and the water would become sweet. The cross is the tree that makes the bitter waters sweet.

    This also happens in the waters of one's life. Ruth's mother in law Naomi told her friends don't call me Naomi, call me Marah for I am bitter but by the end of the book Naomi's life became sweet
     
    #12 whirlingmerc, Jan 27, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2019
  13. Thief

    Thief Rogue Theologian

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    Hey!.....it was a Thief that followed the Carpenter into paradise.....

    right behind Him
     
  14. whirlingmerc

    whirlingmerc Well-Known Member

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    I prefer the term separation from the enjoyment of God since God is everywhere, even in hell.
    Separation from fellowship with God is also a possible term for that bottom line - under judgement
     
  15. Deeje

    Deeje Avid Bible Student
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    Do you have some scriptural evidence of God being in hell?

    Do you know what the Bible's "hell" actually is?

    People can only be separated from God whilst they are alive. This is what it means to be "dead in trespasses and sins"....spiritually dead whilst physically living. But "the dead know nothing", (Ecclesiastes 9:5; 10) so separation from God is inevitable for the physically dead, who are all sleeping. Resurrection is what the scriptures teach, not immortality of the soul.....so Jesus has promised to restore the dead back to life, just as he did for his friend, Lazarus. (John 5:28-29; John 11:11-14)

    According to scripture, there is no judgment of the dead till then. I believe it hasn't happened yet.
     
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