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Trapped People


Well-Known Member
Perhaps Lot hoped to divide the mob, since his daughters were engaged to marry men from the community.

No reason, in my mind, to toss virgin girls out to be gang raped. Then again, I don't get my morality from the Bible. Thank God for my daughters.

He may have hoped relatives or friends of these men would intervene.

If he didn't throw his daughters out to be gang raped, there would be no reason to intervene. This would be like saying he aimed a gun at his daughter and pulled the trigger, because he hoped the chamber would be empty.

It may be he reasoned his daughters would not be desired by these homosexual rapists.

Aside from this statement being weird in about 20 different ways, what good would tossing his daughters have done if he knew the homosexuals would still be after the male angel? It would be like throwing a steak out to a gang of hungry vegans.

Whatever Job's motives in this crisis, God views Lot as righteous, and Jehovah always does what is right.

Yep, that's the religious mind for you. Don't question God's morality, even if it involves handing virgin girls over to gang rapists and saying "do whatever you want to them."

As Elihu told Job: "Are you so convinced that you are right that you would say,‘I am more righteous than God'" (Job 35:2)

I am absolutely certain that if God thinks letting virgin girls get gang raped is preferable to a sex act between two men, that I am more righteous than God.

I have to hand it to you, this is some of the best Biblical apologetics I've seen in a long time. Great stuff.

You know what reasons most fathers could give for pushing their virgin daughters out the door to a gang of rapists and saying "do whatever you want to them?" None. No reason. Zero reasons. Most fathers would die before doing that. That is righteous behavior.

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber
The Bible does not say Lot was drunk. Wine can make one sleepy,
Wine, much like any other alcohol, makes you drunk. If you're drinking enough to pass out, you are very drunk. It's also a reasonable assumption that he vomited from drinking that much, but the Bible didn't mention that either.
Is that what a normal father would do? Most fathers I know would bolt the lock, grab a bat and tell the gang rapists to get the hell away.
Most dads around here wouldn't grab a baseball bat, they'd grab a shotgun.


Learning more about Jehovah.
Premium Member
So, if the guests were starving, and there was nothing to eat, would have been acceptable to offer that little baby in the cradle as a middle eastern delicatess?

So, was that a test of righteousness? If you are ready to kill your child or offer your daughters to the mob, then you are righteous. Is that so?

If that is the case, I seriously hope I am not righteous, whatever that means.

What would have been righteous, in my opinion, is to refute any negotiotation with rapist gangs. Close the door. And do everything to stop them. i am sure God would have stopped them, wouldn't He?

Well, that makes the assumption that angels are males. Not sure whether the question concerning the sex of the angels has been settled.

Incidentally, the whole point is not the justification of what some cultures do. The point is whether God considers righteous someone who does anything of the sort. I make the assumption here that God sense of morality is independent from the mora of the time.

If not, then by that logic, He should tolerate what we do with unwanted embryos, and even declare some mass abortionist as righteous, because hey, this is what we do today. Who is He to interfere with our customs? Why does He get so difficult, all of a sudden?


- viole

Don't take all this too literally and read what I DIDN'T write.:confused:


Well-Known Member
It might be a matter of timing. Meaning, when did you want to ask all these questions, during a sermon when everyone wants to hear their pastor speak or during a one-on-one appointment with the pastor? If it was during a sermon, then your questions would be a disruption to everyone else's service.

How do you know that you have the truth and others don't? How do you know that people haven't already considered other people's views?

Timing is not the issue. How does a pastor look when he is supposed to know all about God and can not answer the questions? This pastor knows this because we have talked in the past.

How do I know I have the truth? This is not a free forum. Censors will delete. How do I know they have not considered my view? Simple. I see they haven't got a clue.


Well-Known Member
Some of us do, and that is dangerous Some of us don't, and that is an important distinction to make.

Bravery requires a lot of good mental health, so you are most likely to find brave outspoken people when their religion and family successfully encourage good mental health. Loving families and mental discipline, strong friendships and confidence are what make whistle-blowers possible. Your question covers a broad spectrum of people, so you just can't answer it in one fell swoop.

Organized Religion is an attempt to regulate mankind, and coincidentally it intersects with the concept of God. It is not an attempt to understand God, but it may require an understanding of God, often a particular understanding. Your question is too ambitious, because you have only got about 20% of the picture of what 'God' means to different people, what rules are for, etc. There are large numbers of people with extremely different religions, very different rules, very different reasons, lots of silence between the groups.

I do realize the diversity in this world. Probably no question could be black and white.

Yes, part of religion is an attempt to regulate mankind.


Well-Known Member
How do I know I have the truth? This is not a free forum. Censors will delete. How do I know they have not considered my view? Simple. I see they haven't got a clue.

That doesn't prove that they haven't considered your view. All it shows is that they haven't accepted your view.


Well-Known Member
That doesn't prove that they haven't considered your view. All it shows is that they haven't accepted your view.

It does when I have not given them my view yet. People tend to like their own view the best. If one questions another person's view, there is usually resistance. you see, many people value beliefs over facts.