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Transgender people cannot be godparents, says Vatican

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
http://www.theguardian.com/society/2015/sep/03/transgender-people-cannot-be-godparents-says-vatican

The Vatican has told a Spanish bishop that transsexuals cannot be godparents after he asked for a formal answer on the matter, the cleric in the diocese of Cadiz and Ceuta said.

How Christian.

That's horrible. Catechism says GBLT people have mental mishaps and called for celibacy. Everytime I think of it, I cringe. I honestly dont know how a Catholic can believe that in his heart.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber
Apparently someone should tell them that being transgender has zero implications regarding as to whether or not someone will be a good or bad parent.
But, someone should remind them, in order to maintain a consistent mentality, that priests, as a whole, aren't exactly known for their good treatment of children, and the Church should probably stress parental caution when leaving their children alone with a priest. Maybe priests shouldn't be allowed to be god parents.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber
The Vatican is under no obligation to promote everything under the sun to 'make people feel good', especially if it's something that's incredibly destructive.
It has nothing to do with pleasing people or making them feel good, but rather the Vatican trying to dictate the lives of others and say that a certain group is "immoral" without giving any solid evidence as to why (and claiming such despite the evidence contrary to their claim of being transgender being "against man's nature"), and carrying on the discrimination of transgender people. And the Vatican wants to say this despite the fact it harbors sexual offenders and predators. There is no difference, literally, between saying being transgender is immoral and saying black people are the cursed descendants of Ham and thus immoral. Both are baseless, offensive, and perpetuate stereotypes and discrimination.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber
I have no problem with this. The Vatican is under no obligation to please everybody.
Obviously, or it wouldn't be a safe haven for child molesters. It's very pathetic they want to call a group who legitimately falls outside the Western male/female binary while they themselves harbor criminals, fugitives, have victim blaming Cardinals, and see to it that certain people never face the legal consequences of their crimes. The Vatican can't even get it right that gender dysphoria and being transsexual has nothing to do with sexuality. They say it's "denying the truth," but the truth is that transsexuals do not have the brain of the sex they were assigned at birth.
 

viole

Ontological Naturalist
Premium Member
This is not homophobic.

The Vatican is under no obligation to promote everything under the sun to 'make people feel good', especially if it's something that's incredibly destructive.

And what is so destructive? Do you see destruction and despair in the part of the world where transgenders can express their sexuality freely?

By the way, I don't to be an ***, but I am curious. What is the gender of the picture on your avatar? She looks like a girlfriend of mine from Vietnam, but I cannot say.

Ciao

- viole
 

The Emperor of Mankind

Currently the galaxy's spookiest paraplegic
This is not homophobic.

Technically you're correct. It's transphobic.


The Vatican is under no obligation to promote everything under the sun to 'make people feel good', especially if it's something that's incredibly destructive.

In what sense is transgenderism "incredibly destructive"? And the Vatican has no moral authority to lecture anyone on what is destructive, or what should or should not be 'promoted' while they continue operating the world's largest paedophile ring.
 

Aštra’el

Aštara, Blade of Aštoreth
You have no problem with an influential organization promoting/promulgating hurtful, homophobic attitudes? How very enlightened.

I have no problem with Deuteronomy or Leviticus either. You know, the Tanakh isn't exactly among the least judgemental scriptures ever written, lol. Yet I still find it to be incredibly beautiful, as well as the Quran and the New Testament and many others.


 

4consideration

*
Premium Member
Apparently someone should tell them that being transgender has zero implications regarding as to whether or not someone will be a good or bad parent.
But, someone should remind them, in order to maintain a consistent mentality, that priests, as a whole, aren't exactly known for their good treatment of children, and the Church should probably stress parental caution when leaving their children alone with a priest. Maybe priests shouldn't be allowed to be god parents.
It seems like a number of people are misunderstanding what a godparent in the Catholic church is. I don't know what other denominations mean by the term, but years (ok, a couple of decades) ago I have been a godparent a few times. I would no longer consent to be one, nor would I qualify.

The purpose of the position of "godparent" is as an instructional position according to, and regarding, the teachings of the Catholic church.

It is meant for the person (sometimes called a sponsor, for older converts) to be involved in the spiritual/religious education of the child/convert. It does not involve physical care of a child, and isn't really at all like being a parent.

Generally, godparents don't do much, but in the event of the death of the child's parents, the godparent is agreeing to see to it the child is instructed according to Catholic teachings.

For that reason, there are certain requirements, and among those requirements are some stipulations (this is just a general explanation) that if the person is not living according to the teachings of the Catholic church, the person is not to be a godparent. I think the church assumes that a person who does not consent to the church being an authority on spiritual/religious matters in their own life, and does not live according to the teachings of the Church, that person would not really be inclined to ensure the instruction of someone else in those teachings.

In my recollection, and understanding, I think there is also the reason, (possibly a main reason) that in order to be godparent, or sponsor, it is necessary that one have previously been Baptized and Confirmed in the Catholic church -- because they are fulfilling a role from the church. The godparent is an important part of the sacrament of baptism, and is in effect, being considered as an arm of the church. So, it is more of an a representative of the church in this particular instance, than anything else.

I understand why this sounds unkind and unloving. In a way, I see it that way. It was due to matters similar to this that seemed to me to unloving to people for being who they are that caused me to leave, and no longer consent to be under the authority of the church. However, at the same time, it makes sense to me that a religion would not give a position (as teacher) to a person not living according to its teachings.

edit: This might help some that aren't familiar with it: http://www.catholiceducation.org/en/culture/catholic-contributions/the-role-of-godparents.html
 
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Evangelicalhumanist

"Truth" isn't a thing...
Premium Member
This is not homophobic.

The Vatican is under no obligation to promote everything under the sun to 'make people feel good', especially if it's something that's incredibly destructive.
What is it, do you suppose, that is "incredibly destructive" about being transgender? Would you make similar comments about dwarfism or albinism? It's an interesting fact that dwarfs, albinos and transgender (and all manner of other people) can become actual parents -- you know, by making babies and all that. If that is the case, then there is nothing in nature (which one must presume God at least slightly approves of) that makes that parentage unnatural, destructive, or any of your other ignorant imagined sins.

And if one can be a parent -- in a natural universe governed by God -- then it's just a little bit hard to see why one can't be a godparent, too.

Ignorance is often an excuse for bigotry, but I always think it's a really, really bad excuse. After all, ignorance is curable. It's called learning.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber
In what sense is transgenderism "incredibly destructive"?
I can't speak for individual members, but generally speaking, they believe it to be self mutilation, against nature, stating god made a mistake, and that transitioning itself brings deep depression and suicidal tendencies (with no regard to the fact these things generally, widely, and mostly go way down after transitioning). But if destruction leads to being able to stand looking at myself in the mirror, then bring on the Tzar bomb! If it makes me eager to go out and live, let a speeding train head straight for me. With it easing this tremendous burden I've had to bear for many years, if this is really destruction, then paint a target on me and let the meteor the size of the one the wiped out the dinosaurs hit me. Just being able to finally bury the harsh and nasty past I had with my parents alone is worth a cruise missile locked on to my car as I'm driving it.
 
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