TagliatelliMonster
Veteran Member
Yes. Because, as I said, it's a game that caters fully to the natural abilities of men.
That is a ridiculous comparison.
You're quite a stubborn dude.
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Transgender People and Sports, what should we do?
- Thread starter leroy
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Yes. Because, as I said, it's a game that caters fully to the natural abilities of men.
That is a ridiculous comparison.
You're quite a stubborn dude.
TagliatelliMonster
Veteran Member
No.
All of them are just having fun while being competitive at the same time.
No matter the league you play at, it is ALWAYS competitive and it is ALWAYS about fun.
Unless you go into the elite teams at national level. Then it's mostly about competitiveness and less about having fun. Although if you aren't having fun, you won't be performing well either.
And being systematically put on the bench due to not being good enough to end up in the selection for the pitch, regardless of the league - the fun quickly goes away. Regardless of gender.
This is why many girls who love the game will attempt to find women divisions by the age of 14-15. Because they don't like being on the bench all the time, being outclassed by boys.
And your unverifiable anecdote of two girls playing in U12 and then quitting to do "women stuff" is going to refute my 5 years of experience of being a youth soccer trainer as well as decades of data collected on every member of every soccer club in the country?
TagliatelliMonster
Veteran Member
I'm sorry, but that's just delusional.
Just look at tennis for a fair analogy.
Women's tennis has been popular for a REALLY long time.
Many players have achieved greatness and legendary status. Some a very long time ago.
Chris Evert, Steffi Graff, Martina Navratilova, Martina Higgins, the Williams sisters, Monica Seles, Sanchez, Kim Clijsters, Justin Henin,........ the list goes on and on.
All of them with multiple grand slam winners.
Most of them being nr 1 in the world for multiple years in a row.
None of them in their best day would be able to compete with guys like Andre Agassi, Federer, Nadal, Borg, Djokovic, etc etc etc.
Just look at this single statistic for example....
The average speed of a first serve in men's tennis is close to 200 km/h. Mine, back when I was only 17 years old and played at quite a high level, was also around 200, with peaks at 215. And I never even made it to international level.
In women's tennis, it's rather 175.
Just why do you think that is?
leroy
Well-Known Member
Why is it a bad comparison? If physical strength whereas importartant as you seem to be claiming, then blacks should dominate over whites in soccer
Well anyway our hypotheses are testable
If you put England´s female national team against India males national team
1 If my hypothesis is true, it would be a fare game because physical strength is not very relvant it is more about soccer culture, (both teams are semiprofessional)
2 if your hypothesis is true India would easily win because they are men and men are simply better.
leroy
Well-Known Member
Well as a trainer I am sure you have fisrt hand experience at the fact that men are typically more serous and care more about soccer than womenNo.
All of them are just having fun while being competitive at the same time.
No matter the league you play at, it is ALWAYS competitive and it is ALWAYS about fun.
Unless you go into the elite teams at national level. Then it's mostly about competitiveness and less about having fun. Although if you aren't having fun, you won't be performing well either.
And being systematically put on the bench due to not being good enough to end up in the selection for the pitch, regardless of the league - the fun quickly goes away. Regardless of gender.
This is why many girls who love the game will attempt to find women divisions by the age of 14-15. Because they don't like being on the bench all the time, being outclassed by boys.
And your unverifiable anecdote of two girls playing in U12 and then quitting to do "women stuff" is going to refute my 5 years of experience of being a youth soccer trainer as well as decades of data collected on every member of every soccer club in the country?
leroy
Well-Known Member
How do you know that?,
Well I dont know much about tennis, but in soccer kicking the ball 15% faster is not that important in most of the cases, its more about hitting the ball in the correct/angle/location/direction
Agin Messi is good simply because he knows how to read the game and he knows how to kick the ball in the correct/angle/location/direction, strength is just one of many other important variables
As a trainer, you can answer
1 }who is the strongest man in your team (the guy that can kick the ball faster than anyone else)
2 is he the best in the team? Is the guy who sccore more goals? Is he the best penalty shouter? I bet no.
Augustus
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1998: Karsten Braasch vs. the Williams sisters[edit]
Another event dubbed a "Battle of the Sexes" took place during the 1998 Australian Open[59] between Karsten Braasch and the Williams sisters. Venus and Serena Williams had claimed that they could beat any male player ranked outside the world's top 200, so Braasch, then ranked 203rd, challenged them both. Braasch was described by one journalist as "a man whose training regime centered around a pack of cigarettes and more than a couple of bottles of ice cold lager".[60][59] The matches took place on court number 12 in Melbourne Park,[61] after Braasch had finished a round of golf and two shandies. He first took on Serena and after leading 5–0, beat her 6–1. Venus then walked on court and again Braasch was victorious, this time winning 6–2.[59] Braasch said afterwards, "500 and above, no chance". He added that he had played like someone ranked 600th in order to keep the game "fun"[62] and that the big difference was that men can chase down shots much more easily and put spin on the ball that female players could not handle. The Williams sisters adjusted their claim to beating men outside the top 350.[59]
If you can't comprehend how important any one of strength, speed, stamina, agility or explosiveness are for footballers, you probably shouldn't be commenting on it as you clearly have no idea what you are talking about
TagliatelliMonster
Veteran Member
Exhibit matches.
And the fact that I played very high level tennis for most of my youth. I'm of the generation of Xavier Malisse, Kim Clijsters, Justin Henin, Christophe Rochus,...
I trained with all of them a lot for a long time. Competed with them. Played doubles tournaments with them.
They made it to pro level and I never did. They were just better and at age 17 I started having shoulder and back problems. Not many people can handle the body stress of such intensive pro-level sports. I know guys that were technically better then Malisse and even more talented, but whose carreers ended prematurely due to injuries.
I know first hand what the difference is between girls and boys at that level.
First, you are very wrong. 15% faster means that the goalkeeper needs to be able to jump faster and be able to deal with much harder shots.
Secondly, you completely ignore the point. You are claiming that biological prowess isn't that different between men and women. Yet you completely fail to acknowledge, and explain, that the average serve of men is much harder then the average serve of women.
And as I already explained, men will on average be naturally better at "reading the game". Hunter instinct and all that. Much easier for them to learn about strategy and tactics.
Secondly, again as I already said, Messi is small but far from weak. The dude has an acceleration that is pretty unmatched. Not many soccer players are capable of running like he does. He's VERY quick.
And an important variable by itself.
Completely depends on the position and playstyle.
Although there are a few ground rules.
Central defenders and defending midfielders for example, don't really need to be the fastest runners. It's nice if they can, but far more important is their physical strength as that helps them to win duels. You also want them large and able to jump high, to be able to use the head to be able to defend well in the box and keep those balls away from the attackers.
In the front, you want fast people. Here playstyle comes into play. If you're into tikkie-takka gameplay, you might want fast agile players like Hazard, Vinicius, Messi, Neymar. If you're into long passes or counter play, you might want to have a tree of a center forward, like Lukaku.
Now... take the BEST woman center forward you can think off. Put her up against central defender trees like for example a Van Dijck. Do you think she's going to touch a single ball? Win a single duel? Be able to rise above him to score a goal with the head? Be serious.
There is no "best in the team". At best, there is a "best in the position".
The team acts like an organism. A great team with average players can beat a team with phenomenal players if the latter doesn't act like a single organism. This is how Manchester United just got its behind handed to it with 4-0 or whatever it was against a much lower level team. It's also how Iceland reached the semi finals during the european cup in 2016.
None of this, however matters to the point at hand.
TagliatelliMonster
Veteran Member
TagliatelliMonster
Veteran Member
Because it's apples and oranges.
The comparison is between genders.
The differences are much smaller then between genders.
It's not "easily testable" that way because it would require setting up that match.
But it's easily testable in other ways. Like simply looking at all the player data that's been collected over the decades. And going to any club and comparing the girls to the boys older then U15.
Or just properly analyzing female and male matches and comparing the statistics.
That's how prognoses are made about matches between teams that never played against each other.