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Transgender and genetics

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Unveiled Artist, Dec 4, 2019 at 10:09 AM.

  1. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist Veteran Member

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    I go to this other site and a question had been ask about transgender genetics. The main idea if I got it right is cismen (lbw) in the womb didn't get enough estrogen and the brain as a result formed genetics of a female brain thereby the gender (genetics + environment) even though male by sex.

    Between the (Gender) Lines: the Science of Transgender Identity - Science in the News

    It's too long to summarize but the genetics part is near the middle. If you have time to read it through it's easier to understand the context than jumping unless you're familiar with genetic jargon, anywhere is good.

    So far reading this looks at transgender from a scientific perspective so it's not discrediting other identity factors involved.
     
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  2. Left Coast

    Left Coast Active Member
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    Sorry I'm confused. Do you mean trans women?
     
  3. Estro Felino

    Estro Felino Believer in free will
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    Interesting thread...
    It is like a continuation of our little talk:)
     
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  4. Estro Felino

    Estro Felino Believer in free will
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    I think identity is something personal and sacred because it is the reflection of our soul, the most spiritual part of ourselves. And identity must be respected.


    Nevertheless sex is something tangible. During intercourse there is an active person and a passive person.

    In most cases the active person is a man and the passive person is a woman.
     
  5. sun rise

    sun rise "Let there be peace and love among all"
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    That's an interesting review.

    Not being up on the latest LGBT... list, I had to look up the long list of letters to see what they meant:

    L - lesbian: a woman who is attracted to other women

    G - gay: a man who is attracted to other men or broadly people who identify as homosexual

    B - bisexual: a person who is attracted to both men and women

    T - transgender: a person whose gender identity is different from the sex the doctor put down on their birth certificate

    Q - queer: originally used as a hate term, some people want to reclaim the word, while others find it offensive. It can be a political statement, suggest that someone doesn't want to identify with "binaries" (e.g. male v female, homosexual v straight) or that they don't want to label themselves only by their sexual activity

    Q - questioning: a person who is still exploring their sexuality or gender identity

    I - intersex: a person whose body is not definitively male or female. This may be because they have chromosomes which are not XX or XY or because their genitals or reproductive organs are not considered "standard"

    A - allies: a person who identifies as straight but supports people in the LGBTQQIAAP community

    A - asexual: a person who is not attracted in a sexual way to people of any gender

    P - pansexual: a person whose sexual attraction is not based on gender and may themselves be fluid when it comes to gender or sexual identity
     
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  6. sun rise

    sun rise "Let there be peace and love among all"
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    That's an interesting review.

    Not being up on the latest LGBT... list, I had to look up the long list of letters to see what they meant:

    L - lesbian: a woman who is attracted to other women

    G - gay: a man who is attracted to other men or broadly people who identify as homosexual

    B - bisexual: a person who is attracted to both men and women

    T - transgender: a person whose gender identity is different from the sex the doctor put down on their birth certificate

    Q - queer: originally used as a hate term, some people want to reclaim the word, while others find it offensive. It can be a political statement, suggest that someone doesn't want to identify with "binaries" (e.g. male v female, homosexual v straight) or that they don't want to label themselves only by their sexual activity

    Q - questioning: a person who is still exploring their sexuality or gender identity

    I - intersex: a person whose body is not definitively male or female. This may be because they have chromosomes which are not XX or XY or because their genitals or reproductive organs are not considered "standard"

    A - allies: a person who identifies as straight but supports people in the LGBTQQIAAP community

    A - asexual: a person who is not attracted in a sexual way to people of any gender

    P - pansexual: a person whose sexual attraction is not based on gender and may themselves be fluid when it comes to gender or sexual identity
     
  7. Polymath257

    Polymath257 Think & Care
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    One big problem here is that there is a difference between something being genetic and it being developmental. To be genetic means that, in some way, the trait is determined by the DNA. To be developmental means that the environment of the womb can also be a factor. And the line isn't sharp.

    So, in the article given, the lack of *response* to estrogen is what produces differences in the brain leading to masculinization. But this can happen either from developmental (no estrogen produced within the womb) or genetics (the DNA doesn't make a copy of a protein that binds to estrogen, or does so poorly). This is further complicated by the fact that fetuses originally 'start out female' and tend to develop male genitalia because of exposure to (and response to) androgens. But it can be the genetics of the fetus that either produce or fail to produce the androgens.

    In the twin studies, the fact that twins share the same womb makes it difficult to separate the genetic component from the developmental one.

    TL;DR: There is a difference between genetics and development. Both can be relevant.
     
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  8. Earthtank

    Earthtank Active Member

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    The doctor put down and wrote down the genetic and biological truths based of empirical and unbiased evidence not some fairy tale land he or she live in. When they visit a doctor, get in a crash, get a check up and eventually die a biological male will always be treated as a male and the same for females.
     
  9. sun rise

    sun rise "Let there be peace and love among all"
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    No. The truth is that biologically there are genetic areas where the DNA does not match the observed genitals. And cases of XXY rather than XX or XY. The situation is extremely far from the simplistic view you presented as the OP indicated.
     
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  10. Earthtank

    Earthtank Active Member

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    I can't recall the exact percentage off the top of my head but, isn't that in less than 1% of people born? And those are not called or considered transgenders, that's called Klinfelter syndrome. You seem to be confusing the 2. Almost all transgenders (I'd argue 99%) do not have Klinfelter syndrome. Klinfelter syndrome effects 1 in 13,000 births live births and only effects 1 in 1,000 if they do not receive treatment prior to puberty. Klinefelter has NOTHING to do with being trans. The % of trans people is between 1-2% so if you do all the math correctly you can see how they have nothing to do with each other.
     
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  11. sun rise

    sun rise "Let there be peace and love among all"
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    I was responding to this:

    You ignored biological and genetic differences in your post and made it seem simplistic.
     
  12. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist Veteran Member

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    Where? I can't find the error.
     
  13. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist Veteran Member

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    I assume the author is putting more emphasis on development more than genetics then? (Not familiar with either)
     
  14. dybmh

    dybmh Terminal Optimist
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    +1

    Thank you @Unveiled Artist for starting up the thread :)
     
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  15. Shadow Wolf

    Shadow Wolf Crazy Diamond

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    Sure about that?
     
  16. Earthtank

    Earthtank Active Member

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    As brain damaged as many have become in an attempt to get "woke" and be "pc" i have yet to see a doctor treat a male as a female and vice versa and for the sake of the patients I hope this never happens.At least, I hope it does not happen in my lifetime. The Medical field and treatment has no room for error and is not a place to play make believe.
     
  17. Shadow Wolf

    Shadow Wolf Crazy Diamond

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    If the doctor looks at the chart and sees M, I hope they aren't treating them like a female.
     
  18. Polymath257

    Polymath257 Think & Care
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    It seems to me that it is very important for the doctor to know if someone is taking hormones, for example. That *will* have a bearing on treatment in addition to the genetics.

    I actually hope that doctors are not so bound to a dualistic way of thinking that they can't adapt to special cases.
     
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