Transcendental Satanism

[Adramelek]

Dear Sireal:

I admire you standing up for the Temple, I would to in your case. First let me say I do still have the uttmost respect for Set's Earthly Temple. In a private email a sent you on this forum I stated I left the Temple for personal reasons not relating to the statements I made in my last post. To me the ToS is still the only currently existing lagit Black Magical/LHP organization in existence.

I understand you are affended, I apologize for this. In my private email to you I outline some of the things that have been told to me by ex-Setian Priests. Whether they are true or not I really don't know, I only have there word for it. Some of the statements were made by an ex-Priest who Recognized me to the Second Degree.

Again I say, I do hope there words are not true. It would be a great dissapointment to see the ToS fall into the same trap the CoS did back in 1975.

If you can prove them wrong, please, please, do so.

I'm beginning to take what I'm hearing from these ex-Setians with a grain of salt as they have never produced any evidence of their accusations against the ToS. I'm nobodies fool, so I am beginning to think these people have some kind of vendita against the ToS.

If possible, I would be interested in discussing Setian topics with you - Xeper, Black Magic, LHP, the Prince of Darkness, etc.

Thank you for your time.

/Adramelek\:bat:

 

[Mr Cheese]

Isnt transcendental satanism an oxymoron?

 

[Adramelek]

To me Transcendental Satanism goes far beyond the LaVeyian concept of the LHP as just a carnal religion. I personally think humanity as a metaphysical aspect which distinguishes it, however, there may be other creatures of the world who also possess a metaphysical aspect. "Transcendental" mean to "go beyond the limits of". LaVeyian Satanism, to me, as far to limited in its approach to the LHP.

So the term to me seems very appropriate.

/Adramelek\

 

[Oberon]

Ave Infernus!

scisne linguam hanc legere? Aut dicisne de quo non scis?

 

[Mr Cheese]

To me Transcendental Satanism goes far beyond the LaVeyian concept of the LHP as just a carnal religion. I personally think humanity as a metaphysical aspect which distinguishes it, however, there may be other creatures of the world who also possess a metaphysical aspect. "Transcendental" mean to "go beyond the limits of". LaVeyian Satanism, to me, as far to limited in its approach to the LHP.

So the term to me seems very appropriate.

/Adramelek\

ok, but by its very nature satanism is not going beyond the limits of.... its embracing the limits and maling them stronger.... kind of like spiritual steroids...

But I understand what you are saying

 

[Adramelek]

Dear Mr. Cheese:

Actually I have to disagree with your diffenition of Transcendental Satanism. It is in fact going beyond the limits of the Judao-Christian views and the views of LaVeyian Satanism. The former, to me is nothing more than an Illusionary myth, the later nothing more than just carnality without any real substance. Gratefication of the Ego is not enough.

To me "Transcendental Satanism" is a lagit term, and I will continue to use it so long as it is of use to me. I agree with Setians in that humanity as a metaphysical aspect to him which distinguishes him, and perhaps other Earthly creature do as well. My cat, seems a lot more intelligent that a lot of humans a come into contact everyday.

I also agree that humanities metaphysical essence was infused within us in Aeons past, and through the millions of years of evolution we have become that which we are today. If this it "true" then I personally feel the Prince of Darkness is the responsible party. Combining the "gift" of intelligence with a creature of vicious natual instincts is something we have to live with, to explore, to nuture, and only hope for the best outcome. For with Intelligence combined with our natural instincts either two things can happen. We can learn to better ourselves as psychecentric aware beings, or we could very possibly end up destroying ouselves in great flashes of thermal nuclear warfare - that's the delima we face has a race of physical/metaphyscal Nature.

We should then tend this Black Flame nurturing it with great care, respect, and with a sensetivety to ethics.

/Adramelek\:bat:

 

[GiantHouseKey]

Adramelek, apart from your wish not to be associated with the ToS, what is the difference between your beliefs and setianism? From your posts thus far, I can't seem to find where to draw the line, if you get what I mean?

Just interested *sits back and takes a bite from an apple*

GhK.

 

[Adramelek]

Dear GiantHouseKey:

I'm sure there are Setians who would dissagree with you. I am personally a former Setian until I found out some things about them that just didn't sit right. As a Satanist who is convinced of the lagitamate extistence of the Prince of Darkness, I don't think he is limited to one name only like Satan, Lucifer, Set, Prometheus, etc.

I've heard some things from ex-Priesthood members about some of the inner goings on within the ToS hiearchy that are hush, hush, to the lower members. I just have a bad feeling that the once great ToS is falling victim to what caused the catastrophic crisis the CoS encountered back in 1975.

I'm nobody's fool and take what I here from these former ex-priesthood members of the ToS with a grain of salt. However, something inside me tells me that there might be some truth to what they are saying... again, hope they are wrong.

These LHP orgs seem to come and go or either deginerate into nothing more than a money making machine like the CoS no matter how long they've been around.

I asked a member of the ToS who I feel to be a Priesthood member to disprove what I've been told about them, but still no answer. I'll give them another day. Then again, this person may not be aware of the shady goings on in the ToS, an organization that has done so much for the LHP reduced to petty greed.(?)

That's one of the reasons why are currently prefer to be a solitary Sorcerer, I don't have to deal with all the b.s. that goes on in these organized religions. As I see it, I am my own Temple of the Black Flame.

/Adramelek\:bat:

 

[blackout]

I'm kind of tired, but really want to try and put something into words here.

After leaving the RC Church, and all activity in politics,
and kind of "divorcing" mySelf from the world system(s) at large
I went through a long period of feeling very strongly
that I would never want to "join" anything again.

The thing that I feel now though,
is that you do things for yourSelf,
that benefit you personally.
And if joining a thing benefits you personally
in an important way,
than that is what's important to YOU.

Just like all the other people in the organization
you need to know what YOU want to get out of your involvement there.
If you are growing DYNAMICALLY then your involvement/experience/affiliation
is something of great worth and value for you.

If the effects of others around you become overtly negative to your experience,
you then need to re-evaluate.
When a higherarchy is non doctrinal in nature however,
and actually all about INDIVIDUAL Self Becoming,
there is no sub-servience to those higher up in the organizational pool,
and this to me is what makes all the difference.

If the people with more organizational responsibility
ruin their OWN Self BeComing over petty leadership issues,
it is their own personal failure, and it is a shame.
However, if these leadership issues are not effecting you directly,
you need to ask yourself how much influence you are going to allow them
to have on your own experience.
As well, if people are putting time and effort into holding an organization together
that I do value personally for my own reasons,
I do not mind kicking in a small donation so they can stay in a nice hotel room,
or whatever. It's a way of saying "thanks".

If you feel you have nothing to thank these members for,
then I guess it is in fact time to re-evaluate how the organization is serving you...
what you are getting out of it...
and why you are there.

Sometimes the answers point back to you.
Sometimes you find a thing is no longer serving your purposes.

Then you do whatever you feel you need to from there.

Obsessing on what others may or may not be doing
will never serve YOU well,
and Setianism is about YOUR Self BEcoming.
It is YOUR responsibility,
not the other "guys".


Hope the heart of my point came through.

~V~

EDIT: I should add also though,
if you feel you have good reason to believe your oganization
is "embodying" unethical treatment of others in any real way,
it is only responsible of you to try and get to the truth/untruth of the matter.
Sometimes you can only go on your gut instincts in the end,
and those instincts will not be the same for everyone, obviously,
when you are dealing only in whispers, rumors, and unproven accusations.
It is the nature of the beast I'm afraid.
We each do our personal best to discern for ourSelf.

 

[Adramelek]

Dear UltraViolet:

What I have come to realize is that these ex-Priests of the ToS who mock the Order and critizise it are more than likely doing it for reasons that pertain to their own failure to Xeper in a Balanced way. Which is essential in Setian Xeper.

I have come to take their critizisms with a grain of salt. It is they who seemed to have screwed up in their own personal Initiation. The reason I left the ToS was for personal reasons and not out of spite of anykind towards Set's Earthly Temple.

I was an Adept Black Magcian of the ToS for two years before I left. Sure there were squables amongst all holders of all Degrees. Even though I enjoy being an independent Sorcerer/Satanist at this time, there may came a time when I will be drawn back to the ToS which is in my opinion the only True LHP organization in existence so far.

I am 38-years-old and have been practicing the Dark Arts ever since I was 9-years-old. So it's always been a part of what I Am. I know there is no other way for me than that of the LHP. And I will forever seek the knowledge, Truth, and Undefiled Wisdom of the Prince of Darkness, and will stand up for Him in this world and will stand by Him in the next.

Hail UltraViolet! Hail, the Lord of Darkness!

/Adramelek\ :bat:

 

[blackout]

If I lived NEAR a Pylon, I'd seriously consider joining the ToS.
The $80 would be well worth the Setian companionship.

But I've come to the conclusion I just can't see the point otherwise.

Actually, If I lived near a Pylon,
I WOULD join.
(to clarify my earlier comment)

As things stand I have young kids still,
and a lousy vehicle,
and no extra resources for mySelf,
so participation in anything long distance
is pretty much a no go/no show for me.

I'm just hoping that as I get out as a musician,
and start playing some of my own darker stuff,
I might meet LHP type people around here where I live.

 

[Mr Cheese]

Dear Mr. Cheese:

Actually I have to disagree with your diffenition of Transcendental Satanism. It is in fact going beyond the limits of the Judao-Christian views and the views of LaVeyian Satanism. The former, to me is nothing more than an Illusionary myth, the later nothing more than just carnality without any real substance. Gratefication of the Ego is not enough.

To me "Transcendental Satanism" is a lagit term, and I will continue to use it so long as it is of use to me. I agree with Setians in that humanity as a metaphysical aspect to him which distinguishes him, and perhaps other Earthly creature do as well. My cat, seems a lot more intelligent that a lot of humans a come into contact everyday.

I also agree that humanities metaphysical essence was infused within us in Aeons past, and through the millions of years of evolution we have become that which we are today. If this it "true" then I personally feel the Prince of Darkness is the responsible party. Combining the "gift" of intelligence with a creature of vicious natual instincts is something we have to live with, to explore, to nuture, and only hope for the best outcome. For with Intelligence combined with our natural instincts either two things can happen. We can learn to better ourselves as psychecentric aware beings, or we could very possibly end up destroying ouselves in great flashes of thermal nuclear warfare - that's the delima we face has a race of physical/metaphyscal Nature.

We should then tend this Black Flame nurturing it with great care, respect, and with a sensetivety to ethics.

/Adramelek\:bat:

yes, but satanism stays within the 7 false heavens....

but then it is hardly alone... in that in principle it seeks service to archonic forces...

but anyway..I'm not LHP.... I should shurrup :foot:

 

[Sireal]

Dear Sireal:
I understand you are affended, I apologize for this. In my private email to you I outline some of the things that have been told to me by ex-Setian Priests. Whether they are true or not I really don't know, I only have there word for it. Some of the statements were made by an ex-Priest who Recognized me to the Second Degree.

Not so much offended, just keeping it Real.

[/quote]If you can prove them wrong, please, please, do so.[/quote]

If they actually talk to me about their concerns I would be happy to discuss such things. As for proving second hand information wrong, you of all people should know better than to even ask.

[/quote]If possible, I would be interested in discussing Setian topics with you - Xeper, Black Magic, LHP, the Prince of Darkness, etc.[/quote]

There is a Setian forum on this list. You would still be in possession of your material from the ToS so you don't really need a forum to discuss it, as you say, you left for personal reasons and when that is sorted out in your life as long as you left on good terms you can come back and discuss those things in the context they are written for. That is where true Setian Initiation really Works.

 

[Adramelek]

Dear Sireal:

Now that I think about it, those ex-Setians seem to be p.o'd at the ToS and are perhaps trying to turn me against it. A classic LBM tactic. From my own experience with the Temple and the friends I made as a member, I strongly doubt their tactics would work on me.

BTW, have you read any of my posts on the Setian forum?

/Adramelek\

 

[blackout]

I personally hope that people's affilitation/lack of affilitation whatever...
doesn't have to get in the way of really stimulating conversation here.

I only wish I had more to offer here mySelf.
One day I will.

 

[Sireal]

Adramelek, Violet,

What others do with their Initiation outside the Temple is of little concern to me. To be Setian one is a member of Set's Temple, period. This has a magical quality to it that does not exist outside the Temple and is likely to create some angst among former members, not because they are no longer affiliated but that they are no longer connected to the source. I can see a Magus/Magister leaving w/o difficulty or angst but the lesser degree's would run into trouble w/o the teaching and environment of the Temple simply because most folks are Not honest (they start using lbm on everyone- doing so in the Temple will abruptly end affiliation) about their experiences and are in fact too lazy challenge themselves beyond what they already have. Or, they have all the answers they think they need and know better than anyone what magic is all about... Lmao. You will not find these folks in the Temple anyway.

For the record, the temple is Not a social club, it is a school for learning the techniques and application of Setian Black Magic.

Has it been mentioned that Black Magic is one of the hardest things to do well in this life? If you are still living at home with mom and dad, don't have a job and can't create personal power in the OU, then you need working on, the BM Works her asss off to attain personal autonomy in this life, that's what separates us the herd, then once Self Mastery is attained the BM can go into the world and start changing things effectively. Yep! going to have to miss a few parties to do this one right Not everyone is cut out for such work and appropriately so. Sitting in front of a keyboard spouting profundities does Not make one a Black Magician. The information Has to be used in practical application or it will do more harm than good to the Magician.

 

[blackout]

Violet,

the BM Works her asss off to attain personal autonomy in this life, that's what separates us the herd, then once Self Mastery is attained the BM can go into the world and start changing things effectively.

That is absolutely true.

I just this moment saw something new in the term "Self Mastery".

 

[blackout]

I'm just going to speak honestly here.

When I was an out of church christian,
other christians told me I was not christian.
Or I was not "fully" christian,
or I wasn't "doing" christianity the right way.

I swore i would never identify myself by a label again.

But I connect with Setian philosophy on such a deep level that,
as of late, I've actually been calling mySelf a Setian.
As of this moment, I am, with a saddened heart... rethinking the label.
However, not using the label, does not change what/who I am.

I will no longer put myself in the middle of affilitation conversations anymore.
It is not my business.

 

[EtuMalku]

Em hotep everyone, nice topic here.
I study and practice a wide range of traditions I have always been solitary and never felt it necessary for myself to join any organization. I have managed to befriend a number of occultists such as Dr. Aquino (who pops in & out of The 600 Club), Thomas Karlsson and Michael Ford, who are fellow musicians as well as others. (oh, UltraViolet I would be interested in starting up a music discussion with you elsewhere if you have no objections.)

I have found them all to be easily approachable and willing to correspond by email (even one rather elite author). Many discussions in private and many of my questions answered.

What I am saying is, it is quite feasible to accomplish our LHP goals without joining an organization and especially not paying large sums of money.

That said, I wish to state my understanding of Lucifer & Satan. I do not see them as one and the same but rather Lucifer as gnosis and spiritual guidance and Satan / Ahriman as the Adversarial Light with which we are challenged and grow from.
Two separate energies.

Lastly, I do have reservation on some Satanic beliefs, which to me tend to come off as nothing more than pragmatic atheism. I personally need something spiritual in my path, I believe there are fundamentals of the hidden aspects of our universe that we do not have the capacity to comprehend but we can feel their presence and existence.

 

[sinistercurrent]

Hi Sireal,

first of all, I accept your standpoint, but it makes no sense for me. You said: "Or, they have all the answers they think they need and know better than anyone what magic is all about". But if there are people who don't believe that they have all answers or know better than anyone, then you tell them that "what others do with their Initiation outside the Temple is of little concern to me". For me this is not suitably. Set was ever the God of crossing border, not the god of "first you must become a member of my church and pay before I talk to you" Don't misunderstand me, I understand and respect that you would discuss initatory experiences only in the ToS, but all the other Setian relevantly topics? It's your decision but I think it could be good for the Xeper of the Temple of Set if the people talk to people who stands outside. Also it could be helpfully for people who are not member to understand the philosophy and religion of Set. And understanding is one part of Xeper as I see it. But, maybe it isn't important to you, why are you here? Only for recruiting ? Thus, I'm here to learn about everything..... if you say "Or, they have all the answers they think they need and know better than anyone what magic is all about", then there will be no reason why youl shouldn't discuss here Setian relevantly topics Together we can learn.

I wish you the best...