Tradition! Tradition! Tradition!

[dybmh]

I haven't read the other replies. Possibly these points have already been made. In case my answers are indeed, redundant, I'll try to be brief.

1. What is the value of tradition?

It supports oral story telling and the oral history of a group. It is a vehicle for discussing and passing on moral and ethical values.

2. Does tradition have a value in and of itself?

It's subjective. Because I am speaking to @Polymath257, I'm going to say "maybe". It I were talking to someone who was a strict materialist, I would say, "no". If I were talking to a religious person, I would say, "yes".

3. What makes a tradition a *good* tradition?

Anything involving tasty foods.

4. What makes a tradition a *bad* tradition?

When the connection to either the oral story telling or the moral/ethical values are lost.

5. How should traditions be changed over time?

If the story of the group changes over time or if the moral and ethical values have changed over time, then the tradition can be changed to reflect this ( or possibly the tradition dies out ). How should this happen? Organically. Word of mouth. The Internet

6. How are new traditions adopted?

Also organically. Word of mouth. The Internet.

 

[Augustus]

And what about those fences that originally had a purpose, now long gone and forgotten, but now only serve to impede necessary movement?

It's a heuristic, not an iron law.

But something that people have expended cost to maintain over a long period of time is likely to serve a purpose otherwise different generations of people wouldn't have expended effort to maintain it.

If you don't see the purpose, it's likely you don't understand the thing so be careful when making changes to it.

We tend to overestimate our intellectual capacities when dealing with complex phenomena and are often hubristic about our ability to shape things to our will.

Again, I don't see 'tradition' as being a good reason for keeping up the fence. People, as well as tearing down things that might be useful, also keep things that have lasted past their utility.

It's not a prohibition of change. If you understand what its utility was, and why it's no longer necessary or can be improved then change might be for the best.

 

[Polymath257]

It's not a prohibition of change. If you understand what its utility was, and why it's no longer necessary or can be improved then change might be for the best.

And I'm saying that it is often the case that the utility was there originally but is now gone, but nobody remembers or knows what it was.

But something that people have expended cost to maintain over a long period of time is likely to serve a purpose otherwise different generations of people wouldn't have expended effort to maintain it.

And this is where I disagree. For many traditions, the cost to maintain is low, and valuing them *as a tradition* is the primary reason for not dispensing with them.

But I can go further. Take female genital mutilation as an extreme example. The 'purpose' is clearly one we no longer agree with and the pain and suffering caused by this tradition are clearly huge. But since it is a 'cultural tradition' it is seen as having value *in that culture*, which, truthfully, I find to be appalling.

And while this is an extreme example, I think that we are inclined to keep traditions, whether good or bad, whether useful or harmful, precisely because they are traditions and in spite of the cost. And *that* is where the problem lies.

 

[dybmh]

There's a cool tv series that came out many years ago. It's called "Survive The Tribe". I'm not sure if it's out there on Netflix or any of the other streaming services. But it takes the viewer deep deep into some of the most isolated indigenous tribes that still exist today. ( well when the tv show as made ).

It may be worth checking out, because it is a way to see many different traditions from geographically distant peoples. Going from memory, there is a practical aspect to some of the traditions for these isolated tribes. And I didn't include that in my original answer.

I think that a tribe in Africa still send their young men out in the wild to kill a lion with a hand made club and a primitive bow. Seems like a barbaric practice. But it develops "the warrior mindset". The tribe looks to the warrior not to fight, they have no other rival tribes anymore. But the warrior provides comfort for the rest of the tribe. Their attitude, "The warrior mindset", cool calm and collected... Stoic and impervious to pain and any form of discomfort makes the tribe feel safe. Even if they have no real threat anymore.

Even for me, a modern person with a family, these distant traditions are inspiring and useful. My son who was a fearful and anxious child early in life found a lot of inspiration in learning about the African warriors even from afar. I am glad that this tribe maintains this traditional approach to the warrior concept, Even though it is completely unnecessary anymore for the protection of the tribe.

A tradition's value is not always obvious, and could be counter-intuitive. Example: Sometimes the warrior is no longer needed. But the warrior mindset is still immensely valuable.

 

[Polymath257]

The following cartoon shows my view of tradition in general. Be careful, the comic strip is NOT safe for work (or many sensibilities), although this particular cartoon is. Don't navigate away from this cartoon to others if you are easily offended.

Spoiler

Sorted

 

[dybmh]

The following cartoon shows my view of tradition in general. Be careful, the comic strip is NOT safe for work (or many sensibilities), although this particular cartoon is. Don't navigate away from this cartoon to others if you are easily offended.

Spoiler

Sorted

I love u so much right now polymath. I am not in a good place to check this out.

But i am looking fwd to this for later.

Thanks,

 

[Augustus]

And I'm saying that it is often the case that the utility was there originally but is now gone, but nobody remembers or knows what it was.

Then try to work it out.

But I can go further. Take female genital mutilation as an extreme example. The 'purpose' is clearly one we no longer agree with and the pain and suffering caused by this tradition are clearly huge. But since it is a 'cultural tradition' it is seen as having value *in that culture*, which, truthfully, I find to be appalling.

And while this is an extreme example, I think that we are inclined to keep traditions, whether good or bad, whether useful or harmful, precisely because they are traditions and in spite of the cost. And *that* is where the problem lies.

In this case you can understand what the utility once was, so changing it is no problem.

It's like honour killings, again there was a clear logic behind them that did make sense. This logic no longer makes sense in most modern environments, so there is no problem with getting rid of it.

 

[Harel13]

3. What makes a tradition a *good* tradition?

Anything involving tasty foods.

Too true.