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Featured Top 10 reasons Jesus is God!

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by whirlingmerc, May 11, 2019.

  1. whirlingmerc

    whirlingmerc Well-Known Member

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    There is one 'begotten' son who is intisically by nature the Son of God and many sons and daughters who are adapted
     
  2. Ancient Soul

    Ancient Soul The Spiritual Universe

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    That statement is spiritually false.

    And even biblically false.

    I already gave some verses that clearly states "SONS of God", yet you just ignored your own alleged "god's word", so don't you even believe your own "god" over the lies you've been fed?
     
  3. whirlingmerc

    whirlingmerc Well-Known Member

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    There are sons of God in the sense angels can be called sons of God in a sense

    Jesus is 'the only begotten Son of God" as quoted in John 3

    Others may be adopted as per John and Romans

    It's quite biblical but 'fake Christian God' sights you yourself don't believe the Bible anyhow. Or am I missing something.
     
    #23 whirlingmerc, May 17, 2019
    Last edited: May 17, 2019
  4. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    Yes, it is new truth, it is the truth that we could not bear to hear back when Jesus walked the earth...

    Jesus also said in John 16:12-13 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

    The Comforter is the same as the Spirit of Truth. It refers to the man who would be the return of the Christ Spirit and who would BRING the Holy Spirit to humanity.

    Jesus was the first Comforter who brought the Holy Spirit to humanity and Baha’u’llah was another Comforter.

    Jesus describes what that Comforter/Spirit of Truth will do:

    John 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
     
  5. whirlingmerc

    whirlingmerc Well-Known Member

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    You were the apostles. The apostles are pictures as part of the foundation.

    Notice also Jude (chapter 1 verse) 3 "contend earnestly for the faith delivered ONCE FOR ALL to the saints" It appears that Jude shut the door on 'future essential truths" whether Mormon or Bahai. or am I getting it wrong?
     
  6. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    Jude 1:3 Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.

    As I understand this verse, it means that we shall not contend with the faith of Jesus Christ.
    That is the very truth.
    Jesus got a revelation from God and nobody should contend with a revelation that came from God.

    However, that does not mean that God cannot ever speak again and reveal additional truth. Revealing additional truth does not take anything away from the truth that was already revealed. The truth of Jesus Christ will always be the truth.

    Matthew 24:35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.

    Jesus said that He had more to say and do in the future.

    John 10:16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

    John 16:12-13 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
    Baha'is believe that Baha'u'llah was the return of the Spirit of Jesus, who, with the aid of the Holy Spirit, came to say and do what Jesus did not say and do, because humanity was not READY for that additional truth 2000 years ago.

    Baha'u'llah came to unite humanity into one fold, in fulfillment of John 10:16.

    Baha'u'llah came to reveal truths that humanity was not ready to hear 2000 years ago, in fulfillment of John 16:12-13.
     
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  7. Katzpur

    Katzpur Not your average Mormon

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    The fact that certain truths were given once does not mean that they were always preserved. Besides, Revelation says, "And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth..." This event is being prophesied as apeing in the last days, so evidently Jude 1:3 canot be interpreted as you have done.
     
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  8. Clear

    Clear Well-Known Member
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    I didn’t want to enter this debate other than to make a single, specific point about an error in translation in a quotation Whirlingmerc offers. He quotes Jude 1:3 thusly : contend earnestly for the faith delivered ONCE FOR ALL to the saints" It appears that Jude shut the door on 'future essential truths" whether Mormon or Bahai. or am I getting it wrong? (Whirlingmerc, post #25)

    In this case Whirlingmerc has it wrong. Ironically, Whirlingmerc capitalizes the error. The text in the Greek refers to the holy faith that was “once delivered”. The verse does not say “ONCE FOR ALL” nor is there any significant Greek manuscript that says “ONCE FOR ALL”. It is an error in the translation he is using.

    For Greek readers, the following is the NA-27 text of the verse : Αγαπετοι πασαν σπουδην ποιουμενος γραφειν υμιν περι της κοινης σωτεριας αναγκην εσχον γραψαι υμιν παρακαλων επαγωνιζεσθαι τη απαζ παραδοθειση τοις αγιοις πιστει (the word "apax" = once is in blue - notice there is no adjective "for all" associated with it. In fact, greek readers will see that πασαν (“all”) only occurs once, and as the second word in this line, and it modifies the word for “diligence”, (not the word “απαζ” “once”).

    Another point is, that though “απαζ” can mean “once”, it is, without context NOT used as an exclusive term such that "for all" can be added without corrupting the meaning. Apax is used as well to indicate a special occasion in early Koine usage. For example, in P. Oxy VIII. 1102.8 (146 a.d.) it is used to describe a person “having once entered on the inheritance”. (“…επει απαζ προσηλθε τη κλεηρονομια”). This does not mean that the person will not recieve more (or another) inheritance, merely that the person has entered into a state of inheritance. In Vettius Valens, (p. 285.30) it is used to describe a change in state “in perpetuum”. Such usage changes the context of Judes' statement.

    For example, Justin Martyr claimed (Dial. c Trypho) that the Prophetic Gifts had left the Jews and were given to the Christian Religion. He was describing that the Jews no longer had prophets and prophetic gifts, but such gifts were, at once, transferred to the Christian faith “in perpetuum”. The fact that the gospel and prophets and prophetic gifts (e.g. the spirit and revelation) were transferred to Christianity from the Jews (who had them in the past), did not mean that the Christians would keep the gospel nor it's gifts pure and unsullied any more than the Jews had done (as the Jewish Prophets had told Israel multiple times in the past, to repent and return to more pure religion during periods of Israels various apostasies).

    Thus, I like Katzpurs historically correct point that though the gospel is given over to the Christians, with all of the accompanying Charismatic gifts of authentic religion, it does not mean that the Christian movement would not undergo schism and evolutions into competing movement having different competing claims, nor that it would not need repair and restoration and repentance from time to time.

    In any case, Good luck in coming to your various conclusions.

    Clear
    δρακτζω
     
    #28 Clear, May 22, 2019
    Last edited: May 23, 2019
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  9. Ancient Soul

    Ancient Soul The Spiritual Universe

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    There you go again totally ignoring all the other verses that I listed proving what you were brainwashed to believe in is false.

    And the verses I quoted have nothing to do with any "angels", that's just another lie you've been fed.
     
  10. whirlingmerc

    whirlingmerc Well-Known Member

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    I read the Bible very carefully and like many things there is a semantic range of meanings.
    In some cases Sons of God can mean angels in some cases it means the adopted sons
    Son of can also mean of the same type as, such as only begotten son of God.... etc...

    Firstborn also has a semantic range of meanings

    You are gods in the Psalms can be referring to corrupt judges
     
  11. Ancient Soul

    Ancient Soul The Spiritual Universe

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    So stop spewing out your made up interpretations of what you WANT the bible to mean already. I posted some verses refuting the false claim that jesus is the ONLY son of the Christian "god", but all you reply with is YOUR wishful thinking. So show me where, what verses, clearly states that SONS of God means "angels" or "adopted "sons"".
     
  12. whirlingmerc

    whirlingmerc Well-Known Member

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    Jesus himself said be was the only begotten Son
     
  13. Ancient Soul

    Ancient Soul The Spiritual Universe

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    No.

    The fictional Jesus did NOT write any of the books in the book of lies, some fictional others falsely claimed he "said" and lots of crazy stuff without a shred of proof to back any of it up.

    And you avoided my request of:

    "So show me where, what verses, clearly states that SONS of God means "angels" or "adopted "sons""."
     
  14. whirlingmerc

    whirlingmerc Well-Known Member

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    Gotcha you don't believe in the Bible or Jesus. That is your view.

    You believe in what?
     
  15. IndigoChild5559

    IndigoChild5559 Loving God and my neighbor as myself.

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    I believe in the Tanakh, what Christians mistakenly refer to as the "Old" Testament. It says God is not a man. It says there is no other Savior besides God. That there is no other God besides God. That God is ECHAD, one. Not three in one. It never says the messiah is to be God. It is very clear.
     
  16. IndigoChild5559

    IndigoChild5559 Loving God and my neighbor as myself.

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    Actually, the author of the gospel of John said that.
     
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  17. whirlingmerc

    whirlingmerc Well-Known Member

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    Actually, the author of the gospel of John was quoting Jesus.

    After all, John spent 3 years with Jesus when he walked on earth pre resurrection he would have first hand knowledge.
     
    #37 whirlingmerc, May 27, 2019
    Last edited: May 27, 2019
  18. IndigoChild5559

    IndigoChild5559 Loving God and my neighbor as myself.

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    No, there are no quotes around John 3:16
     
  19. Ancient Soul

    Ancient Soul The Spiritual Universe

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    Nice try but I'm used to the Christian tactic of avoidance. Now here is the post you replied to where I taking you to task for falsely claiming that:

    "No.

    The fictional Jesus did NOT write any of the books in the book of lies, some fictional others falsely claimed he "said" and lots of crazy stuff without a shred of proof to back any of it up.

    And you avoided my request of:

    "So show me where, what verses, clearly states that SONS of God means "angels" or "adopted "sons"".""

    *************

    I'm waiting...
     
  20. Ancient Soul

    Ancient Soul The Spiritual Universe

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    No, he CLAIMS jesus said that, BIG difference.

    And besides, the bible has been so corrupted over the centuries who in their right mind would believe any of it?
     
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