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Too Bad Jesus Didn't Think of Everything

Samael_Khan

Goosebender
Y'all's instinct to go for the low hanging fruit is betraying you on this one.

Just my opinion. Your mileage may vary.

Your post though, doesn't make sense, or I am not representing it right?

It seems to me that you are determining the meaning of biblical verses depending on how followers interpret them. If that is the case then the true meaning of verses change depending on who follows them which doesn't make logical sense.

The thoughts and intent of the author is the true meaning of verses, not how believers interpret them. And we determine this by reading the context.

Surely, we wouldn't say that if you write an article, some believer in Uncle Sunstone centuries down the line changes the true and original meaning of your text just because they interpret it differently in their present day?
 

PruePhillip

Well-Known Member
Honestly, I think Jesus scored some points, said some very wise things. I genuinely admire the way he picked up on Judaism's 'love your neighbor' and explicitly extended it to social outcasts such as prostitutes and tax collectors.

I just wish he'd gone a step further --- just one step further -- and had truly universalized the commandment. Truly applied it to everyone.

When I think about it, I can't figure out why he left out our political opponents. It's a mystery. But I see no evidence in the world today that Jesus even for a moment thought of including our political opponents in with everyone else we are to love as our neighbor.

Just my 2 cents.

Who do you think He missed out on?
 

BilliardsBall

Veteran Member
Honestly, I think Jesus scored some points, said some very wise things. I genuinely admire the way he picked up on Judaism's 'love your neighbor' and explicitly extended it to social outcasts such as prostitutes and tax collectors.

I just wish he'd gone a step further --- just one step further -- and had truly universalized the commandment. Truly applied it to everyone.

When I think about it, I can't figure out why he left out our political opponents. It's a mystery. But I see no evidence in the world today that Jesus even for a moment thought of including our political opponents in with everyone else we are to love as our neighbor.

Just my 2 cents.

Jesus showed love to political opponents who were technically RELIGIOUS opponents, speaking truth to them in love. As Acts records MANY OF THE PRIESTS BECAME OBEDIENT TO THE FAITH, that is, many of His political opponents came to trust Him, not their religious standing, for eternal life!
 

loverofhumanity

We are all the leaves of one tree
Premium Member
Honestly, I think Jesus scored some points, said some very wise things. I genuinely admire the way he picked up on Judaism's 'love your neighbor' and explicitly extended it to social outcasts such as prostitutes and tax collectors.

I just wish he'd gone a step further --- just one step further -- and had truly universalized the commandment. Truly applied it to everyone.

When I think about it, I can't figure out why he left out our political opponents. It's a mystery. But I see no evidence in the world today that Jesus even for a moment thought of including our political opponents in with everyone else we are to love as our neighbor.

Just my 2 cents.






Didn’t Jesus say very clearly to love our enemies? I believe that covers politicians quite comprehensively.

One thing though. He couldn’t say love all mankind because the concept of humanity did not exist then. At the time, many lands hadn’t yet been discovered. Muhammad taught love of nation (Ummah) but now we need love for all humanity not just our neighbour or country.
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
Didn’t Jesus say very clearly to love our enemies? I believe that covers politicians quite comprehensively.

One thing though. He couldn’t say love all mankind because the concept of humanity did not exist then. At the time, many lands hadn’t yet been discovered. Muhammad taught love of nation (Ummah) but now we need love for all humanity not just our neighbour or country.
Humanity did exist 2000 years ago, but the whole world was not connected back then because the whole world had not even been discovered yet so the peoples of the world were not connected to each other. There was no such thing as globalization, but even before the globalization that we see now, Baha'u'llah wrote:

“It is incumbent upon every man of insight and understanding to strive to translate that which hath been written into reality and action…. That one indeed is a man who, today, dedicateth himself to the service of the entire human race. The Great Being saith: Blessed and happy is he that ariseth to promote the best interests of the peoples and kindreds of the earth. In another passage He hath proclaimed: It is not for him to pride himself who loveth his own country, but rather for him who loveth the whole world. The earth is but one country, and mankind its citizens.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 250
 

loverofhumanity

We are all the leaves of one tree
Premium Member
Humanity did exist 2000 years ago, but the whole world was not connected back then because the whole world had not even been discovered yet so the peoples of the world were not connected to each other. There was no such thing as globalization, but even before the globalization that we see now, Baha'u'llah wrote:

“It is incumbent upon every man of insight and understanding to strive to translate that which hath been written into reality and action…. That one indeed is a man who, today, dedicateth himself to the service of the entire human race. The Great Being saith: Blessed and happy is he that ariseth to promote the best interests of the peoples and kindreds of the earth. In another passage He hath proclaimed: It is not for him to pride himself who loveth his own country, but rather for him who loveth the whole world. The earth is but one country, and mankind its citizens.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 250


You’re right. I meant the concept of a connected humanity.
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
Honestly, I think Jesus scored some points, said some very wise things. I genuinely admire the way he picked up on Judaism's 'love your neighbor' and explicitly extended it to social outcasts such as prostitutes and tax collectors.
I just wish he'd gone a step further --- just one step further -- and had truly universalized the commandment. Truly applied it to everyone.
When I think about it, I can't figure out why he left out our political opponents. It's a mystery. But I see no evidence in the world today that Jesus even for a moment thought of including our political opponents in with everyone else we are to love as our neighbor.........................

When Jesus was under the Constitution of the Mosaic Law then Jesus stressed the Golden Rule of Leviticus 19:18
Then, later for his followers Jesus gave a NEW commandment found at John 13:34-35.
We are to have the same self-sacrificing love for others as Jesus has.
In other words, we are Now to love neighbor MORE than self, more than what the Golden Rule stated.
So, that love would include all sorts of people on Earth (political included) to hear the good news of God's Kingdom (Daniel 2:44; Matthew 24:14; Acts 1:8)
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
Didn’t Jesus say very clearly to love our enemies? I believe that covers politicians quite comprehensively.
One thing though. He couldn’t say love all mankind because the concept of humanity did not exist then. At the time, many lands hadn’t yet been discovered. Muhammad taught love of nation (Ummah) but now we need love for all humanity not just our neighbour or country.

I find Jesus words at Matthew 24:14; 28:18-20; Acts of the Apostles 1:8 does cover ALL mankind because the good news of God's kingdom is now declared on a vast international scale over Earth as never before in history.
Even remote translation offices translate right on location so people in remote areas can now have Scripture in their own mother tongue or native languages.
 

Sunstone

De Diablo Del Fora
Premium Member
Jesus showed love to political opponents who were technically RELIGIOUS opponents, speaking truth to them in love. As Acts records MANY OF THE PRIESTS BECAME OBEDIENT TO THE FAITH, that is, many of His political opponents came to trust Him, not their religious standing, for eternal life!

Fascinating, I'm sure. Now to the relevant point: Your evidence that Jesus' admirable example was indeed understood and enacted by others as Jesus himself understood his words and actions to mean.
 

Sunstone

De Diablo Del Fora
Premium Member
Gets so boring, these threads. I'm tempted to declare myself the winner on the grounds I'm the only one speaking to the point. Of course, I would also be the only person believing I was the winner. And that would be weird, because there are no winners in internet debates.

Things just keep getting stranger and stranger.
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
When Jesus was under the Constitution of the Mosaic Law then Jesus stressed the Golden Rule of Leviticus 19:18
Then, later for his followers Jesus gave a NEW commandment found at John 13:34-35.
We are to have the same self-sacrificing love for others as Jesus has.
In other words, we are Now to love neighbor MORE than self, more than what the Golden Rule stated.
So, that love would include all sorts of people on Earth (political included) to hear the good news of God's Kingdom (Daniel 2:44; Matthew 24:14; Acts 1:8)
With all due respect, Jesus did not say to love your neighbor MORE than yourself.

Jesus said to love one another as Jesus has loved you...

John 13:34-35
King James Version


34 A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.
35 By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.


And Jesus also said to love your neighbor AS yourself.

Mark 12:31
King James Version


31 And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.


However, I agree that we should love our neighbor MORE than ourselves, because that is what my religion teaches.

“Charity is pleasing and praiseworthy in the sight of God and is regarded as a prince among goodly deeds. Consider ye and call to mind that which the All-Merciful hath revealed in the Qur’án: ‘They prefer them before themselves, though poverty be their own lot. And with such as are preserved from their own covetousness shall it be well.’ 7 Viewed in this light, the blessed utterance above is, in truth, the day-star of utterances. Blessed is he who preferreth his brother before himself. Verily, such a man is reckoned, by virtue of the Will of God, the All-Knowing, the All-Wise, with the people of Bahá who dwell in the Crimson Ark.”

Tablets of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 71
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
With all due respect, Jesus did not say to love your neighbor MORE than yourself.
Jesus said to love one another as Jesus has loved you...
John 13:34-35
King James Version


34 A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.
35 By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.

And Jesus also said to love your neighbor AS yourself.
Mark 12:31
King James Version


31 And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.

However, I agree that we should love our neighbor MORE than ourselves, because that is what my religion teaches.
“Charity is pleasing and praiseworthy in the sight of God and is regarded as a prince among goodly deeds. Consider ye and call to mind that which the All-Merciful hath revealed in the Qur’án: ‘They prefer them before themselves, though poverty be their own lot. And with such as are preserved from their own covetousness shall it be well.’ 7 Viewed in this light, the blessed utterance above is, in truth, the day-star of utterances. Blessed is he who preferreth his brother before himself. Verily, such a man is reckoned, by virtue of the Will of God, the All-Knowing, the All-Wise, with the people of Bahá who dwell in the Crimson Ark.” Tablets of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 71

Yes, while under the temporary Constitution of the Mosaic Law Jesus went by the Golden Rule to love neighbor as self.( that Law ended - Romans 10:4)
Jesus went beyond loving neighbor as self to die for all of us.
So, time frame is what needs to be considered. Chronologically the Golden Rule came first , and then updated, so to speak, to John 13:34-35.
Thus, see Jesus ' NEW commandment ' found at John 13:34-35 was to now love others as he loves others, MORE than loving neighbor as self.
So, Jesus' NEW commandment is now superior to the old Golden Rule of Leviticus 19:18.
 

alypius

Active Member
But I see no evidence in the world today that Jesus even for a moment thought of including our political opponents in with everyone else we are to love as our neighbor.

Could Jesus have taught love of political enemies (and even one's enemies) even if few of Jesus's followers are seen to practise that teaching today?
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
Yes, while under the temporary Constitution of the Mosaic Law Jesus went by the Golden Rule to love neighbor as self.( that Law ended - Romans 10:4)
Jesus went beyond loving neighbor as self to die for all of us.
So, time frame is what needs to be considered. Chronologically the Golden Rule came first , and then updated, so to speak, to John 13:34-35.
Thus, see Jesus ' NEW commandment ' found at John 13:34-35 was to now love others as he loves others, MORE than loving neighbor as self.
So, Jesus' NEW commandment is now superior to the old Golden Rule of Leviticus 19:18.
Okay, I understand now. If the new commandment from Jesus was for us to love others as Jesus loved us, that would mean we are commanded to love others MORE than ourselves, since Jesus loved others MORE than Himself.
 

BilliardsBall

Veteran Member
Fascinating, I'm sure. Now to the relevant point: Your evidence that Jesus' admirable example was indeed understood and enacted by others as Jesus himself understood his words and actions to mean.

I made that point--a lot of the same priests who argued with Jesus, even put Him on a cross with the Romans, trusted him for eternal life! Hard to think of a finer example to cite to you!

Or put differently, in case I've misunderstood your point, Jesus said His words and His cross are eternal life!
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
Could Jesus have taught love of political enemies (and even one's enemies) even if few of Jesus's followers are seen to practise that teaching today?
Good point ^ above ^ but we must remember the words found at Matthew 7:21-23
Jesus said that MANY would come ' in his name ' but prove false.
MANY now come in these last days of badness on Earth before Jesus takes needed corrective action - 2 Timothy 3:1-5,13
MANY are fake ' weed/tares ' Christians that have grown along side with the genuine ' wheat' Christians.
They grow together until the Harvest Time or the soon coming Time of Separation as found at Matthew 25:31-33,37.
 
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