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Featured Too Bad Jesus Didn't Think of Everything

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by Sunstone, Jan 20, 2021.

  1. Sunstone

    Sunstone De Diablo Del Fora
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    Honestly, I think Jesus scored some points, said some very wise things. I genuinely admire the way he picked up on Judaism's 'love your neighbor' and explicitly extended it to social outcasts such as prostitutes and tax collectors.

    I just wish he'd gone a step further --- just one step further -- and had truly universalized the commandment. Truly applied it to everyone.

    When I think about it, I can't figure out why he left out our political opponents. It's a mystery. But I see no evidence in the world today that Jesus even for a moment thought of including our political opponents in with everyone else we are to love as our neighbor.

    Just my 2 cents.





     
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  2. danieldemol

    danieldemol Well-Known Member
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    I suppose it depends on whether you consider the Romans as the political opposition, although im thinking more of the dogmatic Jesus than the historical Jesus here
     
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  3. Sunstone

    Sunstone De Diablo Del Fora
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    Maybe. But I think it's pretty clear it can't be in the Bible if no one has noticed it by now.
     
  4. crossfire

    crossfire Antinomian feminist heretic freak ☿
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    Matthew 5:43-48
    43 “You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ 44 But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45 that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. 46 If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? 47 And if you greet only your own people, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? 48 Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.​
     
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  5. ChristineM

    ChristineM "Be strong" I whispered to my coffee.
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    Im with @danieldemol on this. I've studied roman history of the period, rome was all about everything it is said jesus wasn't about.
     
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  6. Brickjectivity

    Brickjectivity Veteran Member
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    I hear you. What do we do about it? I have an idea. Lets make a web site where people can discuss religion. Think it will work?
     
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  7. Israel Khan

    Israel Khan Well-Known Member

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    From what I have read in the "Good Book" Jesus wasn't concerned at all with politics. But he did say "love your enemies" which would obviously extend to political enemies.

    Matthew 5:44:

    "But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you"
     
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  8. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist Veteran Member

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    You have heard that it was said, you shall love your neighbor ‘and hate your enemy.’ 44“But I say to you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven; for He causes His sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. 46“For if you love those who love you, what reward do you have? Do not even the tax collectors do the same? 47“If you greet only your brothers, what more are you doing than others? Do not even the Gentiles do the same?

    Although this is meant for Christians, who actually loves their enemies just as people they love?

    Saying the verse is fine. Acting on it, well...
     
    #8 Unveiled Artist, Jan 20, 2021
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2021
  9. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist Veteran Member

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    Rats. I was too late
     
  10. Left Coast

    Left Coast He/Him
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    The combination of "love your neighbor" and "love your enemies" seems fairly all-encompassing.
     
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  11. Sunstone

    Sunstone De Diablo Del Fora
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    Aren't you assuming that passage is taken by people to mean what you think it means? In other words, if it is being taken as you think it is being taken, wouldn't people be acting on it? Check out C.S. Peirce. The definition of a belief is what you do (or don't do) because of your holding it. Otherwise, the 'belief' is empty and has no demonstrable meaning.

    Although it is an interesting thought you've got going there. I mean the notion something can be a belief if there are no consequences to holding it. How would you ever manage to show, then, any difference between believing something and not believing something?

    So, where is your evidence that people love their enemies?
     
  12. Sunstone

    Sunstone De Diablo Del Fora
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    See post #11
     
  13. Sunstone

    Sunstone De Diablo Del Fora
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    Nice. But see post #11
     
  14. Sunstone

    Sunstone De Diablo Del Fora
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    Wonderful. But see post #11
     
  15. Sunstone

    Sunstone De Diablo Del Fora
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    Good to know. But see post #11
     
  16. Sunstone

    Sunstone De Diablo Del Fora
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    Glad to know it. But see post #11
     
  17. cOLTER

    cOLTER Active Member

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    Jesus didn't say one measured word about specific politics. If he did it would have been relative to the times and place he incarnate and not relevant to the future. Jesus wasn't concerned with politics rather he was concerned about the politician.

    “Woe upon you, false teachers, blind guides! What can be expected of a nation when the blind lead the blind? They both shall stumble into the pit of destruction.
     
  18. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist Veteran Member

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    Well, the meaning of the passage and how people use it for harm are two different things. If I were christian, would I not be christian if I didn't harm others like my hypothetical peers do?

    The interpretation "love your enemies" means the same regardless how a christian interprets it. It's pretty straightforward.

    If god wasn't the foundation, I think "love your enemies" is pretty good use for non-christians. Why do non-christians quote this verse as something they agree with when it's not focused on people who don't believe but people who do? (Enemies are those who don't follow christ-the hypocrites, pagans, and Pharisees)

    My question is why do we deflect on other people "they are evil" but never see that "same level" of evil reflected upon ourselves?

    If you're part of people, the question may be answered by how much you love your enemies. In christianity, it says all people have sinned (so everyone is an enemy). Maybe (from a christian perspective) you're setting the bar to high for people like you, me, and all people who to them apparently can't love our enemies.
     
  19. Left Coast

    Left Coast He/Him
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    I'm confused, Phil. Is your argument that Jesus didn't teach us to love our enemies because today people don't love their enemies?
     
  20. crossfire

    crossfire Antinomian feminist heretic freak ☿
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    I can give you the other side of the coin from the first words of the Dhammapada which plainly explains this counter-intuitive notion and gives it rationality and will help dispel doubt that is necessary to test belief::



    Chapter 1, The Pairs

    1. Mind precedes all mental states. Mind is their chief; they are all mind-wrought. If with an impure mind a person speaks or acts suffering follows him like the wheel that follows the foot of the ox.

    2. Mind precedes all mental states. Mind is their chief; they are all mind-wrought. If with a pure mind a person speaks or acts happiness follows him like his never-departing shadow

    3. "He abused me, he struck me, he overpowered me, he robbed me." Those who harbor such thoughts do not still their hatred.

    4. "He abused me, he struck me, he overpowered me, he robbed me." Those who do not harbor such thoughts still their hatred.

    5. Hatred is never appeased by hatred in this world. By non-hatred alone is hatred appeased. This is a law eternal.

    6. There are those who do not realize that one day we all must die. But those who do realize this settle their quarrels.​

    Hatred doesn't overcome hatred. Pretty straightforward, imo.

    Not everyone does. Skepticism and healthy criticism is welcomed by those who are after Truth and wisdom rather than Victory. I love my skeptics. :)
    However, not everyone sees things this way.
     
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