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Tongue Speaking not needed today

Christ has warned us, “Take heed that no man deceive you. For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many”. — Matthew 24:4-5. One of the deception of today, is tongue speaking. The experience which the disciples went through has been perverted by professed Christians. Christ had commissioned the disciples, to preach the gospel to all the world, beginning at Jerusalem. They were to preach, teach, and convert souls, not by their own strength, but through the holy spirit. They were faced with one problem, the language barrier. The disciples only spoke their native language, and were not fluent in other languages or tongues. God knew this, and made provision through the holy spirit. Thus the holy spirit gave them utterance or the ability to speak other languages, so that other may hear the gospel and be saved.


How about today, do we need this gift? Is language a barrier as it was in the time of the disciples? The answer is no. How about those who speak tongue in their churches, is it genuine? Sadly the answer is no. Why is that? Simply because during the experience at Pentecost, every man heard the disciples speaking their native language, and not another man interpreting it for them. Acts 2:6-8. The tongue speaking that's going on in the church today, is what scripture calls vain babblings, which leadest onto ungodliness. 2Timothy 2:16 & 1 Timothy 6:20. This is also an indicator thay you need to leave that church! Those who claim that they speak in tongue, first deceive themselves, and others. They have not the truth, and those who follow them are blind, and are being lead by blind leaders!

 

Shaul

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Christ has warned us, “Take heed that no man deceive you. For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many”. — Matthew 24:4-5. One of the deception of today, is tongue speaking. The experience which the disciples went through has been perverted by professed Christians. Christ had commissioned the disciples, to preach the gospel to all the world, beginning at Jerusalem. They were to preach, teach, and convert souls, not by their own strength, but through the holy spirit. They were faced with one problem, the language barrier. The disciples only spoke their native language, and were not fluent in other languages or tongues. God knew this, and made provision through the holy spirit. Thus the holy spirit gave them utterance or the ability to speak other languages, so that other may hear the gospel and be saved.


How about today, do we need this gift? Is language a barrier as it was in the time of the disciples? The answer is no. How about those who speak tongue in their churches, is it genuine? Sadly the answer is no. Why is that? Simply because during the experience at Pentecost, every man heard the disciples speaking their native language, and not another man interpreting it for them. Acts 2:6-8. The tongue speaking that's going on in the church today, is what scripture calls vain babblings, which leadest onto ungodliness. 2Timothy 2:16 & 1 Timothy 6:20. This is also an indicator thay you need to leave that church! Those who claim that they speak in tongue, first deceive themselves, and others. They have not the truth, and those who follow them are blind, and are being lead by blind leaders!
Ooo, another glossolalia zombie thread. This should be entertaining to watch. A Christian internecine grudge match. I'm going to get some popcorn.

Don't worry about what your New Testament says about how disagreements among yourselves should be settled in private. The non-Christians won't think less of the one you profess to serve. Or will they?

Wheeeeeee
 

Windwalker

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Christ has warned us, “Take heed that no man deceive you. For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many”. — Matthew 24:4-5. One of the deception of today, is tongue speaking. The experience which the disciples went through has been perverted by professed Christians. Christ had commissioned the disciples, to preach the gospel to all the world, beginning at Jerusalem. They were to preach, teach, and convert souls, not by their own strength, but through the holy spirit. They were faced with one problem, the language barrier. The disciples only spoke their native language, and were not fluent in other languages or tongues. God knew this, and made provision through the holy spirit. Thus the holy spirit gave them utterance or the ability to speak other languages, so that other may hear the gospel and be saved.


How about today, do we need this gift? Is language a barrier as it was in the time of the disciples? The answer is no. How about those who speak tongue in their churches, is it genuine? Sadly the answer is no. Why is that? Simply because during the experience at Pentecost, every man heard the disciples speaking their native language, and not another man interpreting it for them. Acts 2:6-8. The tongue speaking that's going on in the church today, is what scripture calls vain babblings, which leadest onto ungodliness. 2Timothy 2:16 & 1 Timothy 6:20. This is also an indicator thay you need to leave that church! Those who claim that they speak in tongue, first deceive themselves, and others. They have not the truth, and those who follow them are blind, and are being lead by blind leaders!
So, are you a closeted tongues-speaker?
 

Ingledsva

HEATHEN ALASKAN
Christ has warned us, “Take heed that no man deceive you. For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many”. — Matthew 24:4-5. One of the deception of today, is tongue speaking. The experience which the disciples went through has been perverted by professed Christians. Christ had commissioned the disciples, to preach the gospel to all the world, beginning at Jerusalem. They were to preach, teach, and convert souls, not by their own strength, but through the holy spirit. They were faced with one problem, the language barrier. The disciples only spoke their native language, and were not fluent in other languages or tongues. God knew this, and made provision through the holy spirit. Thus the holy spirit gave them utterance or the ability to speak other languages, so that other may hear the gospel and be saved.


How about today, do we need this gift? Is language a barrier as it was in the time of the disciples? The answer is no. How about those who speak tongue in their churches, is it genuine? Sadly the answer is no. Why is that? Simply because during the experience at Pentecost, every man heard the disciples speaking their native language, and not another man interpreting it for them. Acts 2:6-8. The tongue speaking that's going on in the church today, is what scripture calls vain babblings, which leadest onto ungodliness. 2Timothy 2:16 & 1 Timothy 6:20. This is also an indicator thay you need to leave that church! Those who claim that they speak in tongue, first deceive themselves, and others. They have not the truth, and those who follow them are blind, and are being lead by blind leaders!

I agree with you that Christian - speaking in tongues - is just babbling, - and it hurts the churches, as they look like idiots.

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Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
I agree with you that Christian - speaking in tongues - is just babbling, - and it hurts the churches, as they look like idiots.

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It is.

I had gotten involved in the Pentecostal movement (Word of Truth) and upon hindsight a lot of it is actually complete rubbish.

Tongues was actually pretty cool at first. Which is why it seemed so appealing as this was something that traditional denominations didn't do.

The attraction towards pentecostal is it's more attuned to a person's emotional needs that brings spirituality to "life" quite well, and to think your wittnessing something actually supernatural occur firsthand through speaking in tongues and interpretation of tongues created a "spiritual connection" and a feeling your part of something that no other religion has. Its referred to as, Gifts of the Spirit".

That is, until you eventually discover that speaking in tongues and interpretation varies greatly among person to person talking about the same thing! Oh boy. *grin*

It didn't take long thereafter to realise that there is nothing special or unique about what was going on, as compared to anyone else who practices any type of religion in terms of spiritual enablement and connectivity with the divine. Then again I was a teenager at the time, so things had fit nicely for awhile. I really felt like an early Christian in tune with a living god while the rest of the world seemed spiritually zombified. Even Catholics jumped on the charismatic bandwagon for awhile.

Yea. Speaking in tongues is gimmicky in the context it was used.

Linguistics issues makes much more sense as it applies to biblical narrative and context upon closer examination.
 

Nietzsche

The Last Prussian
Premium Member
Christ has warned us, “Take heed that no man deceive you. For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many”. — Matthew 24:4-5. One of the deception of today, is tongue speaking. The experience which the disciples went through has been perverted by professed Christians. Christ had commissioned the disciples, to preach the gospel to all the world, beginning at Jerusalem. They were to preach, teach, and convert souls, not by their own strength, but through the holy spirit. They were faced with one problem, the language barrier. The disciples only spoke their native language, and were not fluent in other languages or tongues. God knew this, and made provision through the holy spirit. Thus the holy spirit gave them utterance or the ability to speak other languages, so that other may hear the gospel and be saved.


How about today, do we need this gift? Is language a barrier as it was in the time of the disciples? The answer is no. How about those who speak tongue in their churches, is it genuine? Sadly the answer is no. Why is that? Simply because during the experience at Pentecost, every man heard the disciples speaking their native language, and not another man interpreting it for them. Acts 2:6-8. The tongue speaking that's going on in the church today, is what scripture calls vain babblings, which leadest onto ungodliness. 2Timothy 2:16 & 1 Timothy 6:20. This is also an indicator thay you need to leave that church! Those who claim that they speak in tongue, first deceive themselves, and others. They have not the truth, and those who follow them are blind, and are being lead by blind leaders!
If "tongues" were a thing, like any language, there would be some kind of pattern. It would be possible to decipher it with a relatively small sample size. For instance, in English, you have a lot of use of works like "the", "a", "I", "you", "and", so on and so forth.

To someone who has never heard English, or any language remotely like it, they would still be able ti discern certain patterns in the speech. Certain sounds would pop up regularly, in similar contexts.

"Tongues" has literally none of that. There is no pattern. There is no rhyme or reason. It is just gibberish, and it always has been.
 

Ingledsva

HEATHEN ALASKAN
What dignified face do you suggest for them?

There is no reason for them to take the texts as meaning they should speak gobbldy-gook that other people can't understand, and that makes them look ridiculous. It should be recognized as foreign languages. The "speaking in tongues people" should reread the texts and stop the weirdness. One of my significant others had to go to one of these churches as a child. They babbled nonsense, tore off their clothing, and rolled around the floor. They scared him and permanently put him off churches. He wanted no part of such lunacy.

As feneluscliff said, "The experience which the disciples went through has been perverted by professed Christians. Christ had commissioned the disciples, to preach the gospel to all the world, beginning at Jerusalem. They were to preach, teach, and convert souls, not by their own strength, but through the holy spirit. They were faced with one problem, the language barrier. The disciples only spoke their native language, and were not fluent in other languages or tongues. God knew this, and made provision through the holy spirit. Thus the holy spirit gave them utterance or the ability to speak other languages, so that other may hear the gospel and be saved."

"The way the story is told in Acts, the apostles' miraculous ability to speak in foreign languages was only one of many kinds of miracles experienced by the early church. Acts describes many other miracles as God guided the new church into growth through the Holy Spirit. None of those miracles is presented as a requirement for every Christian." - https://www.gci.org/bible/tongues1

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Kelly of the Phoenix

Well-Known Member
What dignified face do you suggest for them?
Supposedly people were speaking ACTUAL languages, or at least people were hearing them speak the various audience members' actual languages, much like how the Universal Translator works in Star Trek. If this is truly by the Holy Spirit, I'd like to see them do something other than spouting gibberish and have grammatically correct foreign languages that they couldn't speak normally.
 

Windwalker

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Supposedly people were speaking ACTUAL languages, or at least people were hearing them speak the various audience members' actual languages, much like how the Universal Translator works in Star Trek. If this is truly by the Holy Spirit, I'd like to see them do something other than spouting gibberish and have grammatically correct foreign languages that they couldn't speak normally.
Here's my take on it. What they were doing in the NT was no different than what you see in all the other religions of the world where glossolalia is practiced. What you see in modern Pentecostal/Charismatic churches is the same phenomena you see in with the Zulu tribe in Africa, Voodoo, etc. What you see in the Bible, when Luke writes about it is simply taking what was going on, which was common religious practices, such as in the temple of Diana, and creates a miracle-story spin around it about speaking languages others could understand, where they all were amazed and signed up to join the religion. There is plenty of mythic spins present in Luke/Acts. This is no different.

If you read 1 Cor. 14, you will hear Paul speak extensively about how the tongues speaker is edifying himself (in his own zone, so to speak), and doesn't help another because no one can understand him. He adds, " So also you, unless you utter by the tongue speech that is clear, how will it be known what is spoken? For you will be speaking into the air." This is not a "miracle" utterance of a foreign language they never studied. It's not magic-language. It's a common religious phenomenon, and it was being practiced right up the road from the church in Corinth at the Temple of Diana. The whole book of 1 Cor. covers many of the things they were doing which were the same as the "pagans" were.

In Paul's exhortation, he is trying to establish order in the church services, where people engaging in forms of ritual ecstasies (which tongues is) was not appropriate. Paul's idea of church was not about raising energies and mystical experiences. That was too much like the pagans, and he wanted his church to look "different" (ingrained in his Jewish roots, no doubt about being "separate"). Rather Paul's idea of church was a place where everyone taught each other and didn't leave people feeling left out, no going off into ecstasies and trances and whatnot in the congregation like they did in the pagan temples. Yet Paul himself had mystical/ecstasy practices as he clearly talks about them and that he spoke in tongues. BTW, there was no "need" to speak in foreign languages as everyone was bi-lingual and Greek was a common language everyone spoke.

What you see in modern Pentecostal churches is in fact the same thing you saw with Paul's Corinthians. My criticism of them is that they have a fixation on the practice of speaking in tongues as the height of spiritual expression and experience. It's a fixation on the perception of the "magical", miracle signs to inspire faith, and whatnot. It makes it the goal. It makes it about the experience and seeking it. It misses what it's really used for in religious practice, which is a form of raising energy in meditative states. It's like the energy of the motor in a car. But it's not about the sound and feeling of the engine, but the fact that it can move the vehicle to go somewhere through it.
 
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Ingledsva

HEATHEN ALASKAN
This is from the Hebraic Roots Bible. Note 1Co 14:18.

1Co 14:1 Pursue love, and seek eagerly the spiritual things, but rather that you may prophesy.

1Co 14:2 For the one speaking in an unknown language does not speak to men, but to YAHWEH, for no one understands, but in spirit he speaks mysteries.

1Co 14:3 But the one prophesying to men speaks for building up, and encouragement, and comfort.

1Co 14:4 The one speaking in a language builds himself up, but he prophesying builds up a Congregation.

1Co 14:5 And I wish all of you to speak in various languages, but I would even rather that you may speak under inspiration. For the one speaking under inspiration is greater than the one speaking in languages, unless he interpret, that the Congregation may receive building up.

1Co 14:6 But now, brothers, if I come to you speaking in various languages, what will I profit you, except I speak to you either in revelation, or in knowledge, or in inspiration, or in teaching?

1Co 14:7 Yet lifeless things giving a sound, whether flute or harp, if they do not give a distinction in the sound, how will it be known what is being piped or harped?

1Co 14:8 For also if a shofar gives an uncertain sound, who will get himself ready for war?

1Co 14:9 So also you, if you do not give a clear word through the language, how will the thing being said be known? For you will be speaking into air.

1Co 14:10 So it may be many kinds of sounds are in the world, and not one is without distinct sound.

1Co 14:11 If, then, I do not know the power of the sound, I will be a foreigner to the one speaking, and he speaking to me, a foreigner.

1Co 14:12 So also you, since you are zealots of spiritual things, seek to build up the Congregation that you may abound.

1Co 14:13 So then, the one speaking in a foreign language, let him pray that he may interpret.

1Co 14:14 For if I pray in a language, my spirit prays, but my mind is unfruitful.

1Co 14:15 What then is it? I will pray with the spirit, and I will also pray with the mind; I will sing with the spirit, and I will also sing with the mind.

1Co 14:16 Else, if you bless in the spirit, the one occupying the place of the unlearned, how will he say the amen at your giving of thanks, since he does not know what you say?

1Co 14:17 For you truly give thanks well, but the other is not built up.

1Co 14:18 I thank my Elohim that I speak more foreign languages than all of you.

1Co 14:19 But in a Congregation I desire to speak five words with my mind, that I may also instruct others, than thousands of words in a foreign language.

1Co 14:20 Brothers, do not be children in your minds, but in malice be like infants, and in your minds be mature.

1Co 14:21 It has been written in the Torah, "By other languages and by foreign lips I will speak to this people, and even so they will not hear Me", says YAHWEH. (Isa. 28:11, 12)

1Co 14:22 So that the gift of languages is not a sign to those believing, but to those not believing. But inspired teaching is not to those not believing, but to those believing.

1Co 14:23 Then if the whole Congregation comes together, and all speak in foreign languages, and uninstructed ones or unbelievers come in, will they not say that you are fanatical?

1Co 14:24 But if all are inspired speaking, and some unbeliever or one not instructed comes in, he is convicted by all, he is set right by all.

1Co 14:25 And so the secrets of his heart become revealed; and so, falling on his face, he will worship YAHWEH, declaring that YAHWEH is truly among you.

1Co 14:26 Therefore I say to you my brethren, when you come together, whoever among you has a psalm to sing, has a teaching, has a language, has a revelation, has an interpretation. Let all things be for building up.

1Co 14:27 If one speaks in a foreign language, let it be by two or three at the most, and in turn, also let one interpret.


1Co 14:28 And if there is no interpreter, let him be silent in the Congregation, and let him speak to himself and to YAHWEH.

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Ingledsva

HEATHEN ALASKAN

Even though the language is a little strange in this text - he makes it plain in 1Co 14:18 that the gift is speaking in real languages.

1Co 14:18 I thank my Elohim that I speak more foreign languages than all of you.

Not gobbledy-gook, - MORE languages.

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Windwalker

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Even though the language is a little strange in this text - he makes it plain in 1Co 14:18 that the gift is speaking in real languages.

1Co 14:18 I thank my Elohim that I speak more foreign languages than all of you.

Not gobbledy-gook, - MORE languages.

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So, they chose to interpret it as "foreign languages", and that means "known languages"? First it's a interpretation of what they "think" Paul would have meant. Even if it were a translation, translations are very subjective. I can give you examples of translations which other translators come up with something quite different. If the translator does not have the proper contexts to truly understand what is going on, well..... there's a reason why people go back to the original languages! Is Hebrew the original language of these texts? No. They are not. Greek is. Why are you quoting from this so-called "Hebraic Roots Bible," which is actually NOT a translation, but a transliteration. It's like the Living Bible, imagining if the author were a modern American! It's worthless.
 

Ingledsva

HEATHEN ALASKAN
So, they chose to interpret it as "foreign languages", and that means "known languages"? First it's a interpretation of what they "think" Paul would have meant. Even if it were a translation, translations are very subjective. I can give you examples of translations which other translators come up with something quite different. If the translator does not have the proper contexts to truly understand what is going on, well..... there's a reason why people go back to the original languages! Is Hebrew the original language of these texts? No. They are not. Greek is. Why are you quoting from this so-called "Hebraic Roots Bible," which is actually NOT a translation, but a transliteration. It's like the Living Bible, imagining if the author were a modern American! It's worthless.

He refers to himself as having MORE languages then them. Not a singular so-called "spiritual" language.

1Co 14:18 ευχαριστω τω θεω μου παντων υμων μαλλον γλωσσαις λαλων

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