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Tomb may shed light on 10th plague

Discussion in 'Science and Religion' started by Pah, Nov 23, 2004.

  1. Pah

    Pah Uber all member

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    Tomb may shed light on 10th plague

    By Charles M. Sennott, Globe Staff | November 23, 2004
    http://www.boston.com/news/globe/he...004/11/23/tomb_may_shed_light_on_10th_plague/

    LUXOR, Egypt — Out of the blinding light of a fall morning here in the Valley of the Kings, American archeologist Kent Weeks led the way down a narrow, stone passageway and into the entrance of a tomb.

    Weeks peered his flashlight into the enveloping darkness of ‘‘the hidden tomb,’’ as he calls it, and pressed on through the damp, winding passages toward what may be his archeological team’s most significant find after years of methodical digging, scraping, and brushing.

    At the end of a long hallway a human skull rested, propped up in a wooden box, and framed in the bleak light of a bare bulb powered by a generator that rumbled through the stony silence of the tomb.

    This skull — Weeks believes, and new scientific evidence suggests — may be that of the oldest son of Rameses II, the pharaoh who most historians agree was the ruler of ancient Egypt more than 3,000 years ago at the time of the biblical story of the Exodus.

    If so, this is the skull of a man who the Hebrew Bible says was killed by the 10th of the horrible plagues God sent to convince pharaoh to free the Hebrew slaves. And if so, it contains an important new piece of forensic evidence: The skull has a depressed fracture on the left hand side which pathologists say clearly occurred at the time of death.

    In other words, Weeks’s discovery could have profound implications for understanding a biblical narrative that is at the core of Judaism, and part of the foundation of Christianity and Islam. It raises the question as to whether the oldest son of the pharaoh of the Exodus was struck down not by the hand of God, as the Bible says, but by the hand of man. And if that is true, perhaps the 10th plague became a metaphor for the early death that befell the pharaoh’s oldest son.

    Weeks this fall secured permission from Egyptian authorities to clean and examine this skull and three others that — because of their position in the tomb and writing on the walls — he believes are also sons of Rameses II. Weeks’s team has used the latest scientific techniques in forensics and computer imaging to try to match the skulls to their probable father, Rameses II.

    x ‘‘Careful scientific analysis of the human remains we have found in KV 5 can help us to determine if they are, in fact, the crown prince’s,’’ said Weeks, who lives on a houseboat along the Nile at Luxor and who has devoted his life to fulfilling a boyhood dream of becoming an Egyptologist. ‘‘New technologies are letting Egyptologists explore areas that just a few years ago we thought impossible. They offer methodologies that might help us determine at what point this person was killed and how.’’

    Continuation links at the bottom of the Web page
     
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  2. robtex

    robtex Veteran Member

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    wow pah you find the coolest stuff!!! Later this year hopefully we will know more.
     
  3. jewscout

    jewscout Religious Zionist

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    Very cool i'm excited to see that Discovery special they are going to show!!!:jiggy:
     
  4. Pah

    Pah Uber all member

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    It seems that archeology is a two edged sword - it goes to the proof of an event told in other ways and it can as easily debunk the myth.

    Bob
     
  5. Jayhawker Soule

    Jayhawker Soule <yawn> ignore </yawn>
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    This is absolute nonsense:
    • Proposed dates for the mythical Exodus are all over the map, with the two 'most' traditional being mid 15th century BCE and early 13th century , and with many other contenders offered up as apologists try to coerce some conformance between scripture and archaeology.
    • To suggest that the killing of a prince is evidence of the killing of all of the 1st born of Egypt is beyond stupid.
    As for Egyptian archaeology ...
     
  6. Pah

    Pah Uber all member

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    Absolute nonsense is a pretty strong term for an article that suggests the opposite. Even given the conjecture as to the date, it seems that the forensic evidence of the skull shows that man did the killing not God

    Bob
     
  7. Jayhawker Soule

    Jayhawker Soule <yawn> ignore </yawn>
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    Yes, it is a pretty strong term. It is also, in my opinion, a pretty accurate one, irrespective of how someone seeks to promote an article.

    This is a joke, right?
    And Moses said, "Thus said the Lord: 'Around midnight I am going out in the midst of Egypt. And every firstborn in the land of Egypt shall die, from the firstborn of Pharaoh sitting on his throne to the firstborn of the slavegirl who is behind the millstones, and every firstborn of the beasts. And there shall be a great outcry in the land of Egypt, the like of which there has not been and the like of which there will not be again. But against the Israelites no dog will snarl, from man to beast, so that you may know how the Lord sets apart Egypt and Israel. .... Exodus 11
    Where does God indicate that throughout this carnage He'll avoid blunt force trauma?

    Forensics indeed! You've been watching too much CSI. Even the most inane apologist could weave a dozen 'reasonable' scenarios covering "the forensic evidence". Conjecture all you want, the forensic evidence has no Biblical significance one way or another. Find me a stele with hieroglyphics stating:
    my name is Mockmose
    I hacked Pharaoh's son for fun
    I am not YHWH - so there!​
    And then we'll talk.
     
  8. Jayhawker Soule

    Jayhawker Soule <yawn> ignore </yawn>
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    Parenthetically, Exodus 11 presents the inerrantist with an interesting problem (beyond the killing of innocent slavegirls). The Lord kills "every firstborn of the beasts". But, back in Exodus 9:
    And the Lord did this thing on the next day, and all the livestock of Egypt died, but of the livestock of Israel not one died.
    So the calf killed in chapter 11 was killed previously in chapter 9. Strange but, then again, theology and overkill are no stranger to one another.
     
  9. Jaymes

    Jaymes The cake is a lie

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    Neat article, Pah! Now I'm going to have to watch that Discovery Channel special...

    And wow, touchy. o_o
     
  10. Jayhawker Soule

    Jayhawker Soule <yawn> ignore </yawn>
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    It should be fun to watch. In fact, what do you think about you and I doing a brief summary?

    I have a bit of time so, if you don't mind, I'll do mine now. Granted, the program has yet to air, but I've seen other Discovery channel presentations so this should not pose too serious a problem ...

    The program will feature popularized archaeology laced with mild innuendo. A few rhetorical questions will be posed, probably just before commercial break. None will be answered. In the end we'll discover that the archaeological research continues, but that the Biblical questions remain unresolved. The program's ratings will be better than normal.
     
  11. Jaymes

    Jaymes The cake is a lie

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    I haven't watched all that many commercials for it (one, actually, which I didn't really pay much attention to), but from the past things I've watched by the Discovery Channel, they present both sides of the argument equally. It probably won't reach a conclusion, and each side will come out thinking they've won... :biglaugh:
     
  12. Mr Spinkles

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    :biglaugh: :biglaugh: :biglaugh:

    Aw nuts...the author of my stele calls himself Brad. Thought I had you there for a second.
     
  13. Pah

    Pah Uber all member

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    I enjoyed the awkward humor, Deut - seeing as it is the commercial holday season we could call it a mite of merry mirth. :biglaugh:

    And I loved your assimulation of the style of Josh McDowell and J.P. Holding who are famous for saying that two is included in more than two. They are masters of "it could have been that way" as well.

    But to return to your particular "could have been" - It raises more questions than it seeks to answer, Could it have been that the period of time starting at midnight was sufficient to kill all the first born? Could it have been that there was an army assisting the Lord or did crudgels fly from all places to do the deed? Or did the Lord do each one by one over weeks. Surely there are records of all the fresh meat that was available let alone the demand for spices and such to bury the dead.

    Your answers would certainly go a long way into explaining how Herod took care of those infants he killed. :biglaugh:

    Bob
     
  14. Jayhawker Soule

    Jayhawker Soule <yawn> ignore </yawn>
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    Much like presenting "both sides of the argument equally" in a class on evolution? From the scientific perspective, there is no "both sides of the argument equally": there is peer-reviewed archaeology versus arguments from silence and arguments from ignorance. To the extent that a 'science program' gives the latter the facade of legitimacy, it does a disservice.
     
  15. Jayhawker Soule

    Jayhawker Soule <yawn> ignore </yawn>
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    I'm sorry you found it awkward. Humor is not my forte - but I try. :(
     
  16. Jayhawker Soule

    Jayhawker Soule <yawn> ignore </yawn>
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    Remember, folks, this is the weekend when we find out if "Weeks’s discovery could have profound implications for understanding a biblical narrative that is at the core of Judaism, and part of the foundation of Christianity and Islam." - Not
     
  17. huajiro

    huajiro Well-Known Member

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    Deut when you talk, I feel like I was robbed in life....if I only had a brain:woohoo:
     
  18. Jayhawker Soule

    Jayhawker Soule <yawn> ignore </yawn>
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    So, what was the verdict?
     
  19. Pah

    Pah Uber all member

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    I don't know. The show bored me so much hat I went to bed.

    Bob
     
  20. painted wolf

    painted wolf Grey Muzzle

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    My guess, since it isn't on the front page of any major archeology or science or eaven news paper is it was 'ambiguous' at best. "Believe if you want to be we arn't giving any definite answers." This is the way such programs have played out before.

    wa:do
     
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