To what extent should religion promote democracy?

[Maximus]

But, but, but... Broadband in every household..!

Hah, no doubt the rapid rollout of 5G would not be on the top of the Pope's to-do list

 

[Dawnofhope]

Religion, science and politics should remain separate, unrelated ideologies lest one chooses to be like Islam, where everything is mushed together into a whole-life plan, where everything is layed out beforehand, where people are like cattle, just living to serve their predetermined purpose by some older dead people from a previous generation.

There are all sorts of assumptions in there. Religion, science and politics all concern themselves with either what is true or what is best. So there is some overlap. We live in one world after all. However I agree there needs to be some separation between the three. Part of the reason there needs to be separation is religion has fallen into disrepute. So as one religious group points an accusatory finger at another religious group it all looks like part of the problem, not part of the solution.

Personally, I've always been at odds with Catholic Social Teaching.

...It's essentially a collection of old statements by previous popes comprised into one modernized ideology, which I see as kind of like a Frankenstein creation, brought back to life.

...We have a current Pope. For this time.

Ok then. So what does the Catholic Church have to say about democracy today?

 

[Cooky]

Ok then. So what does the Catholic Church have to say about democracy today?

The Church remains silent. Only referencing the need to participate in the common good of all.

Catechism of the Catholic Church - Participation in social life

 

[Cooky]

...Typically, Catholics are to use prudential judgement in discerning the best methods of assuring the common good through their own conscience.

Catechism of the Catholic Church - Moral conscience

 

[Dawnofhope]

Yes the Pope is elected but by the College of Cardinals so I would not call that democracy really.

I am not saying representative democracy cannot do good. I am saying I think it is overrated. And how does the world look to you right now? How much good did voting do in 2016 in the US? I would gladly submit to the Pope rather than have Donald Trump as President. Have you read what he (the Pope) has written on the evils of Capitalism? The need to protect the poor and all of Creation? I hear nothing like this from "democratically elected" leaders.

I am not a Catholic so why would I follow what the Pope has to say? I do not look towards the Catholic Church for moral guidance or spiritual sustenance. However I fully accept the Catholic Church has many teachings I would agree with and are Central to my beliefs too. So it is good that Pope Francis makes statements that provides informed commentary on the social issues and needs of this day. However I would regard the manner in which humanity governs the vast resources at its disposal as being just as important as some other social issues you mentioned. We all know what tyranny and injustice looks like when governments fail.

Democratically elected governments can promote social evils too. Hitler was an outstanding example of a democratically elected leader who promoted great social evil. So democracy isn’t just about leadership, its about determining who are the best and most capable members of our community to lead us and to have highlight the key issues that leadership needs to address. So true democracy needs to enable those with selflessness devotion and unquestioned loyalty to the community to lead. Those who best combine spiritual qualities with recognised ability, a well trained mind and mature experience. True democracy needs to be free from the types of political intrigue, manipulation and blatant self interest that characterises so called democratic countries today.

Participatory democracy can provide opportunities for both service and expression of ideals at a grassroots level. So ordinary people are empowered to contribute their talents and capacities towards the greater social good and are not passively reliant on their leaders.

 

[Maximus]

I am not a Catholic so why would I follow what the Pope has to say? I do not look towards the Catholic Church for moral guidance or spiritual sustenance. However I fully accept the Catholic Church has many teachings I would agree with and are Central to my beliefs too. So it is good that Pope Francis makes statements that provides informed commentary on the social issues and needs of this day. However I would regard the manner in which humanity governs the vast resources at its disposal as being just as important as some other social issues you mentioned. We all know what tyranny and injustice looks like when governments fail.

Democratically elected governments can promote social evils too. Hitler was an outstanding example of a democratically elected leader who promoted great social evil. So democracy isn’t just about leadership, its about determining who are the best and most capable members of our community to lead us and to have highlight the key issues that leadership needs to address. So true democracy needs to enable those with selflessness devotion and unquestioned loyalty to the community to lead. Those who best combine spiritual qualities with recognised ability, a well trained mind and mature experience. True democracy needs to be free from the types of political intrigue, manipulation and blatant self interest that characterises so called democratic countries today.

Participatory democracy can provide opportunities for both service and expression of ideals at a grassroots level. So ordinary people are empowered to contribute their talents and capacities towards the greater social good and are not passively reliant on their leaders.

"True democracy needs to be free from the types of political intrigue, manipulation and blatant self interest that characterises so called democratic countries today."

Maybe, but I am not sure what 'true democracy' is (I certainly would not want pure democracy).

"Participatory democracy can provide opportunities for both service and expression of ideals at a grassroots level."

Can, yes. But that is not often the case. You seem to view the world with rosier colored glasses than I do.

 

[Dawnofhope]

...Typically, Catholics are to use prudential judgement in discerning the best methods of assuring the common good through their own conscience.

Catechism of the Catholic Church - Moral conscience

In examining this catechism it all looks reasonable and consistent with leading a spiritual life based on the Revelation of Christ. Obviously our personal perspective can err and we need to be fully acquainted with the guidance provided through Divine Revelation. For a Catholic that also means turning to the one true church.

The relative absence of democratic processes within the Catholic Church or lack of constructive commentary about the necessity of democratic ideals does not surprise me. The Revelation of Christ was nearly two thousand years when the widespread necessity for democratic institutions as we have today was neither possible nor practical. It was not a priority then but I believe it is today.

Likewise the institutions of your Church were founded during an era very different from today.

 

[Faithofchristian]

The last two hundred years have seen a profound change in the governance of human affairs with the ascendancy of democracy, human rights and freedom. These are important ideals that can easily be taken for granted. In many parts of the world the majority of people don’t have a voice or the opportunity to elect those who would represent them. It can be dangerous to speak out against injustice.

In this thread I wish to examine the extent to which each of our faiths promotes the ideals of democracy within our communities. In other words are democratic ideals important enough to model in our faith communities? Are there aspects of our faith communities where democratic institutions may exemplify more noble principles compared to secular institutions?

Democracy is of fundamental importance in my religion, the Baha’i Faith. Every year we attend gatherings to elect Local and National Assemblys. These institutions are invested with the authority to govern our communities alongside the responsibility to consult with our communities and consider the thoughts of individual members.

‘Abdu’l-Bahá in the early twentieth century taught:
Do not yield to the overwhelming power of tyranny and despotism. Serve the cause of democracy and freedom. Continue your journey to the end. The bright day is coming. The nucleus of the new race is forming. The harbinger of the new ideals of international justice is appearing.

How about your faith? How important is democracy and why?

Here in the United States we elect who will be our leaders. President.Congress. Senator's...
Our founding fathers establish our freedom of religion and freedom of speech. Life.. liberty. the pursuit of happiness. Justice and Judgment.
These being Christians God given Rights.
And those who come to live in the United States.
But today we have those in the Democratic party who wants to replace these things with socialism.
Which never works. Hitler. Venezuela. Cuba. Russia. All tried Socialism but became a dictatorship government.
taking away Justice and Judgment. freedom of religion and freedom of speech and the pursuit of happiness.

 

[Dawnofhope]

The Church remains silent. Only referencing the need to participate in the common good of all.

Catechism of the Catholic Church - Participation in social life

This catechism approaches the core issues in regards the need for institutions to govern our communities without specifying the nature of those institutions.

1897 "Human society can be neither well-ordered nor prosperous unless it has some people invested with legitimate authority to preserve its institutions and to devote themselves as far as is necessary to work and care for the good of all."15

By "authority" one means the quality by virtue of which persons or institutions make laws and give orders to men and expect obedience from them.

1901 If authority belongs to the order established by God, "the choice of the political regime and the appointment of rulers are left to the free decision of the citizens."20

The diversity of political regimes is morally acceptable, provided they serve the legitimate good of the communities that adopt them. Regimes whose nature is contrary to the natural law, to the public order, and to the fundamental rights of persons cannot achieve the common good of the nations on which they have been imposed.

Catechism of the Catholic Church - Participation in social life

That answers a key question as to what the Catholic Church has to say about democratic institutions. It is silent as you rightly stated, yet sees the need for such institutions and recognises the legitimacy of a variety of unspecified institutions including those democratically elected no doubt, monarchies and no doubt itself if that is what the citizens chose.

You’ve also answered to some degree the question as to what extent your church embodies or champions democratic ideals. It doesn’t at all, but nor does it oppose such institutions. The Catholic Church appears to take a neutral stance.

 

[McBell]

What religion promotes democracy?
I mean religion, not specific followers.

 

[Dawnofhope]

"True democracy needs to be free from the types of political intrigue, manipulation and blatant self interest that characterises so called democratic countries today."

Maybe, but I am not sure what 'true democracy' is (I certainly would not want pure democracy).

"Participatory democracy can provide opportunities for both service and expression of ideals at a grassroots level."

Can, yes. But that is not often the case. You seem to view the world with rosier colored glasses than I do.

Its not that I view the world with rose tinted glasses but view the world through the lens of Divine Revelation including that of Moses, Christ, Muhammad and the Twin Prophets of the Baha’i Faith, the Bab and Bahá’u’lláh. The principles I outlined are simply enshrined in our community life. For 50 years our small city has had a Baha’i community with an annually elected spiritual assembly based on the principles outlined.

The Local Spiritual Assembly | What Bahá’ís Believe

Further each year at this time we elect delegates and consult on matters of national importance to enable to election of our National Spiritual Assembly.

The National Spiritual Assembly | What Bahá’ís Believe

 

[Dawnofhope]

Here in the United States we elect who will be our leaders. President.Congress. Senator's...
Our founding fathers establish our freedom of religion and freedom of speech. Life.. liberty. the pursuit of happiness. Justice and Judgment.
These being Christians God given Rights.
And those who come to live in the United States.
But today we have those in the Democratic party who wants to replace these things with socialism.
Which never works. Hitler. Venezuela. Cuba. Russia. All tried Socialism but became a dictatorship government.
taking away Justice and Judgment. freedom of religion and freedom of speech and the pursuit of happiness.

Thank you. It sounds as if the Christian Church you are involved with is very much aligned with the partisan politics of your country. Your church supports one party (the Republicans) and not the other (the Democrats). Baha’is do not join political parties or align with one party over the other but vote according to their conscience.

How about your Church? Do you have elected leaders or appointed ministers? Is democracy part of how your church operates?

 

[cataway]

riding the beast ? you's will be bucked off and eaten . so wack it with a stick and yell yeehaaaaaaaa wile you still can

 

[Dawnofhope]

What religion promotes democracy?
I mean religion, not specific followers.

To be clear, the Baha’i Faith does.

Democracy, Faith and the Future

 

[Dawnofhope]

riding the beast ? you's will be bucked off and eaten . so wack it with a stick and yell yeehaaaaaaaa wile you still can

Isn’t every faith community and government under Satan’s domain according to the JWs?

 

[Dawnofhope]

Christianity should not get involved on politics, and not until they have their own house in order should they even consider democracy!

That’s not very egalitarian of you. Christians should be accorded the same rights as anyone else, should they not?

 

[Dawnofhope]

The problem is that democracy is common and religion individual. We in common shall not in a democracy tell people what they Should individually believe. If we do that, then it is not a democracy.

Clearly there are limits, even with a theocracy, where freedom of belief is a profoundly personal matter and can not and should not be governed.

 

[Dawnofhope]

And so we come to tolerance of differences and conflicts of interest, and mutual concerns and necessities.

What religion teaches tolerance, or celebration of differences which is vital to a democracy?

Religion teaches conformity and exclusion of non conformists.

That is an important question for any faith community. Baha’is are taught to associate with peoples of all faiths ( or no faith) in a spirit of love and fellowship. Our principles include unity in diversity, not unity in conformity.

 

[Faithofchristian]

Thank you. It sounds as if the Christian Church you are involved with is very much aligned with the partisan politics of your country. Your church supports one party (the Republicans) and not the other (the Democrats). Baha’is do not join political parties or align with one party over the other but vote according to their conscience.

How about your Church? Do you have elected leaders or appointed ministers? Is democracy part of how your church operates?

I do not belong to any religious organizations nor any church.
As I don't need them to worship my God.
We elect those who up hold our God given Rights. Justice and Judgment. Freedom of religion and freedom of speech and the pursuit of happiness.

Democrats wants to take away these things to establish socialism which the world knows never works.
The Republican Party wants to keep our God given Rights.
Thank you for asking..it's much appreciated. Thank you

 

[osgart]

That is an important question for any faith community. Baha’is are taught to associate with peoples of all faiths ( or no faith) in a spirit of love and fellowship. Our principles include unity in diversity, not unity in conformity.

That's interesting. I am glad that is true of Bahai's. I wish all religions, and even naturalism were so understanding of other people that are not like themselves.