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To what extent does religiosity inhibit broad thinking?

godlikemadman

God Among Men
Speaking from my own personal experience, the dogmatic religions of the West, namely Christianity, Judaism, and Islam, are all very much closed-environment religions: they exist apart from the rest of humanity, the only group claiming to be saved, with the only correct book and the only correct beliefs about God. Everyone else is either damned to hell or nonexistence, regardless of their righteous actions or traits. Each religions has set rituals one must complete on a regular basis in order to stack up enough kudos with God to achieve Paradise. Each believes they are the chosen people, those God has rightly guided to attain salvation and paradise in the next life.

That's all fine and dandy. I've got no problem with these beliefs. My problem arises when people of these beliefs look at everything in the world through that belief system's lens. In effect, everything is tainted by that lens. Depending on what what has been taught to the individual, reality MUST align with the beliefs, and not vice versa. Everything this person sees, in effect, is corrupted with confirmation bias, a psychological term used to describe people who accept only facts which align with their beliefs, and all other facts are null and void, or blasphemous, or heretical, or flawed in some way. Everything good that happens is a result of God's grace on them, and everything bad is simply God testing them. It's circular logic. Of course, not all theists are like this, and not all Abrahamic believers are like this either. But for what seems to be a majority, thinking outside the box of religion is looked down upon and even demonized. Either facts seem to fit the puzzle and are joyfully accepted, or they are unexplainable by religion and are therefore "mysteries" or hoaxes of some sort.

At least, this is what I have perceived.
 

InformedIgnorance

Do you 'know' or believe?
It depends on what you mean by 'broad' thinking, however my post is written under the assumption that you are referring to people being able to consider different situations and concepts from multiple different perspectives. If an individual strongly holds to a worldview (regardless of the source on which that view is founded) then they may have difficulty sufficiently disassociating themselves from that particular worldview in order to consider examining the concept or situation from other views, particularly those that contradict that worldview on particularly strongly held values.

However, this is independent of holding to a particular religion, instead it is more about an individual's ability to:
>> Be aware of their own world view in particular any biases that they have, and being able to suspend that view to a considerable extent.
>> Be able to identify the view of others (or of some abstract position) and to apply that world view to consideration of the concept or situation.

It truly is about being set in your ways - unable to put yourself in other people's shoes; rather than being about religion it is about being dogmatic and inflexible, regardless of what you actually believe in.
 

ankarali

Active Member
I think ''the religion'' is a necessity, we need it, in the world each one has a religion, Christianity seems the biggest one and after we see islam and more than half of the world belong to these two religions. Judaism is a minority but we see Jewish people in the world on the important places then we give to judaism to the 3rd place in the world.

These three religions are the religions having a book.

In the far east, budhism and confucian religions are popular.

In Africa, there is many local religions

There are also deists and atheists also.

But I am not sure if we can class ''atheism'' as a religion

Then the people in the world need a religion and humanity are searching the best religion sometimes we find invented religion as ''scientology'' etc.

Finally I think religions will be with us as we live.
 

InformedIgnorance

Do you 'know' or believe?
.... You seem to like the Abrahamic religions a lot... however giving Judaism third place when they have about 15 million or so practitioners is nothing short of ludicrous and is one example of an individual's worldview strongly influencing their perception of the world; Hinduism and Bhuddism for example both have dozens of times as many practitioners; nor have you commented on the irreligious which are one of the largest groups List of religious populations - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia despite your claim that "each one [person perhaps?] has a religion"

What separates one of these.... 'invented religions' from other religions?
 

ankarali

Active Member
The number is not important I tried to classify religions

3 religions (christiannity, islam and judaism) have a book

in the other part we see the other religions not having a book

and finally we have atheism (I am not sure if we can classify it as a religion)
 

dyanaprajna2011

Dharmapala
The problem with the conservative, dogmatic, fundamentalist aspect of religion, as I see it, is because said people are so emotionally entrenched in their belief system, that any attempt to show them the real world, in regards to when reality deviates from their religious view, is automatically an attack on them personally, even though, this is often not the case. Their beliefs have been so ingrained into their mind that they are not able to see "the forest for the trees", as they say. It's like standing in a house, with many windows, and only looking out one window, and assuming that the small amount that you can see through that one window, is the totality of reality. And a 'freethinker', is the one standing outside, telling the people in the house to come out, and see how much of the world they're missing. But they've been standing at that window for so long, they've forgotten there's a door to walk out of.
 

Terrywoodenpic

Oldest Heretic
To what extent does religiosity inhibit broad thinking?

It depends on the person not the religion.
a belief in God is not to switch off our brain.

I am very happy to discover new things and explore new thoughts
That is how I have come to my present understandings.

I would agree that some religions discourage personal thoughts and interpretations, and some very forcibly. However I see such strictness self defeating, as any error destroys the legitimacy of the whole. This is why Bible literalists defend their position so strongly, it is a fight to retain their faith in the face of logic and scientific proof.
 

dyanaprajna2011

Dharmapala
Why does religion, well, some, like conservative and fundamentalist branches of Abrahamic religions, fear science? Science doesn't stifle spirituality. Eastern religions go on fine incorporating both. There's no need for religion to fear science. It's absurd.
 

ankarali

Active Member
You are kidding right? You think only the Abrahamic religions have 'a book'? Or even a central religious text?

Sorry if I gave a fault information but only abrahamic religions have books sent by God. I don't know if a budhist have a book and I don't know who wrote it. Do you know any book sent by God? Please inform me if you know because I don't know much about the other religions (budhism etc.)
 

dyanaprajna2011

Dharmapala
Sorry if I gave a fault information but only abrahamic religions have books sent by God. I don't know if a budhist have a book and I don't know who wrote it. Do you know any book sent by God? Please inform me if you know because I don't know much about the other religions (budhism etc.)

Buddhists have holy texts, but we don't believe in an all-powerful, personal, creator god, we don't worship, so ours aren't sent from a god. Some of the Hindu texts are said to have been revealed by the gods though, particularly the Vedas.
 

connermt

Well-Known Member
Speaking from my own personal experience, the dogmatic religions of the West, namely Christianity, Judaism, and Islam, are all very much closed-environment religions: they exist apart from the rest of humanity, the only group claiming to be saved, with the only correct book and the only correct beliefs about God. Everyone else is either damned to hell or nonexistence, regardless of their righteous actions or traits. Each religions has set rituals one must complete on a regular basis in order to stack up enough kudos with God to achieve Paradise. Each believes they are the chosen people, those God has rightly guided to attain salvation and paradise in the next life.

That's all fine and dandy. I've got no problem with these beliefs. My problem arises when people of these beliefs look at everything in the world through that belief system's lens. In effect, everything is tainted by that lens. Depending on what what has been taught to the individual, reality MUST align with the beliefs, and not vice versa. Everything this person sees, in effect, is corrupted with confirmation bias, a psychological term used to describe people who accept only facts which align with their beliefs, and all other facts are null and void, or blasphemous, or heretical, or flawed in some way. Everything good that happens is a result of God's grace on them, and everything bad is simply God testing them. It's circular logic. Of course, not all theists are like this, and not all Abrahamic believers are like this either. But for what seems to be a majority, thinking outside the box of religion is looked down upon and even demonized. Either facts seem to fit the puzzle and are joyfully accepted, or they are unexplainable by religion and are therefore "mysteries" or hoaxes of some sort.

At least, this is what I have perceived.

Everyone looks at this through some sort of "lens". That shouldn't come as much of a surprise.
I'm sure religious people get annoyed when non-religious people look at the world through a non-religious "lens".
Such is life.
So long as people don't try to force their views on others, I don't much care how they look at things.
Though it is fun to watch religious people argue amongst themselves and crumble over stupid, trivial things.
 

Quintessence

Consults with Trees
Staff member
Premium Member
connermt said:
Everyone looks at this through some sort of "lens." That shouldn't come as much of a surprise.

Yup. This is what I was thinking when I first read the topic. The human mind always operates with organizing structures through which we perceive the world. You can call it a schema, a construct, a lens... whatever. We use these schemas to navigate the world around us and they influence how we think and perceive in profound ways. In short, confirmation bias happens no matter what one's schema is. Doesn't matter if we label it as "religious" or not; everybody has them and everybody has biases because of them.

I agree with what InformedIgnorance said earlier with regards to how one develops the capacity to think beyond one's biases or "think broadly" so to speak:

InformedIgnorance said:
It is more about an individual's ability to:
>> Be aware of their own world view in particular any biases that they have, and being able to suspend that view to a considerable extent.
>> Be able to identify the view of others (or of some abstract position) and to apply that world view to consideration of the concept or situation.

I'd add another factor to consider, I think:
>> The extent to which a person's schemas are permeable or concrete.

Certain schemas (e.g., religious ideologies) may encourage permeability or concreteness to varying extents. A permeable schema is basically one that is open to change and revision; we could call this "open-minded." Concrete ones are not; we could call this "closed-minded." Dogmatism found in some religious ideologies lends itself to concreteness. Not all religions are dogmatic, however, and in fact encourage self-reflection and change (and therefore permeable constructs). It is, therefore, unwise to make sweeping generalizations about how religion impacts the permeability or concreteness of schemas. There is far too much diversity of religion and within religions for that.
 

Sunstone

De Diablo Del Fora
Premium Member
Speaking from my own personal experience, the dogmatic religions of the West, namely Christianity, Judaism, and Islam, are all very much closed-environment religions: they exist apart from the rest of humanity, the only group claiming to be saved, with the only correct book and the only correct beliefs about God. Everyone else is either damned to hell or nonexistence, regardless of their righteous actions or traits. Each religions has set rituals one must complete on a regular basis in order to stack up enough kudos with God to achieve Paradise. Each believes they are the chosen people, those God has rightly guided to attain salvation and paradise in the next life.

That's all fine and dandy. I've got no problem with these beliefs. My problem arises when people of these beliefs look at everything in the world through that belief system's lens. In effect, everything is tainted by that lens. Depending on what what has been taught to the individual, reality MUST align with the beliefs, and not vice versa. Everything this person sees, in effect, is corrupted with confirmation bias, a psychological term used to describe people who accept only facts which align with their beliefs, and all other facts are null and void, or blasphemous, or heretical, or flawed in some way. Everything good that happens is a result of God's grace on them, and everything bad is simply God testing them. It's circular logic. Of course, not all theists are like this, and not all Abrahamic believers are like this either. But for what seems to be a majority, thinking outside the box of religion is looked down upon and even demonized. Either facts seem to fit the puzzle and are joyfully accepted, or they are unexplainable by religion and are therefore "mysteries" or hoaxes of some sort.

At least, this is what I have perceived.

Out of curiosity, could you clarify what you believe is the relationship between confirmation bias, etc. and these religions? Specificially, in what sense, if any, is confirmation bias, etc. within the context of these religions other than confirmation bias, etc. outside of the context of these religions?
 

Trey of Diamonds

Well-Known Member
At least, this is what I have perceived.

Historically, religion has often been a source of education and supported scholarly pursuits. It is usually fundamentalists movements within a religion that wish to curtail education as it is a threat to their control over their congregations. In the OP you are speaking of your own personal experiences so that means you are judging religions that are hundreds of years old on their modern day representatives. I would suggest looking into the connection between the religions of the world and education over several time periods before making such a generalized statement.

History of education - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 

Levite

Higher and Higher
Speaking from my own personal experience, the dogmatic religions of the West, namely Christianity, Judaism, and Islam, are all very much closed-environment religions: they exist apart from the rest of humanity, the only group claiming to be saved, with the only correct book and the only correct beliefs about God. Everyone else is either damned to hell or nonexistence, regardless of their righteous actions or traits. Each religions has set rituals one must complete on a regular basis in order to stack up enough kudos with God to achieve Paradise. Each believes they are the chosen people, those God has rightly guided to attain salvation and paradise in the next life.

That's all fine and dandy. I've got no problem with these beliefs. My problem arises when people of these beliefs look at everything in the world through that belief system's lens. In effect, everything is tainted by that lens. Depending on what what has been taught to the individual, reality MUST align with the beliefs, and not vice versa. Everything this person sees, in effect, is corrupted with confirmation bias, a psychological term used to describe people who accept only facts which align with their beliefs, and all other facts are null and void, or blasphemous, or heretical, or flawed in some way. Everything good that happens is a result of God's grace on them, and everything bad is simply God testing them. It's circular logic. Of course, not all theists are like this, and not all Abrahamic believers are like this either. But for what seems to be a majority, thinking outside the box of religion is looked down upon and even demonized. Either facts seem to fit the puzzle and are joyfully accepted, or they are unexplainable by religion and are therefore "mysteries" or hoaxes of some sort.

At least, this is what I have perceived.

Actually, Jews don't believe in Hell (or salvation). We don't believe that Judaism is the only correct set of beliefs about God-- only the one correct set of beliefs for us. And we don't believe that one must be Jewish or do Jewish rituals to attain the life of the World to Come (our version of Paradise).

We believe that Torah and everything in it is meant for the Jewish People, as it is the embodiment of our covenant with God. It was never meant for non-Jews, as we suppose that they have their own traditions and teachings for how to interact with God, and what God wishes of them; and likewise we suppose that if God wants to establish other, different covenants with other peoples, that is His business and theirs, but not ours. We think that God wants everyone to try and create just societies, where the poor and helpless are cared for, and there is no oppression; but how non-Jewish societies are to do this is up to them, and any traditions about God's teachings that they might have. If non-Jews live good lives, in this general sense (trying to create just societies, helping the poor and helpless, etc.), we suppose them to be righteous, and pleasing to God.

There are certain things that some non-Jewish religions believe which we believe to be erroneous, as we also believe atheists be in error; but one can err with sincerity, and still lead a good life, acceptable to God, who we believe ultimately cares less for the minutiae of theology, and far more for how we treat one another.
 

ChristineES

Tiggerism
Premium Member
In my case, my faith didn't inhibit any kind of "broad thinking"(if that means what I think it does). I don't know everything, but I didn't stop learning about things, including science, because of my faith. I am not saying that it never happens, but I think it is rarer than the OP suggests. I can't speak for any other people of faith, but I am sure most of them would probably say something similar- at the RF, I mean.
 

InformedIgnorance

Do you 'know' or believe?
>> The extent to which a person's schemas are permeable or concrete.
Nice catch - I completely overlooked that; yes some schemas are by nature more flexible in their composition, they enable the individual to more easily consider alternative while others find this more difficult (for example those that claim to be absolute, perfect, truth - any alternative must therefore be inferior by simple 'logic', given that particular schema is held as being infallible)

Frubals
 
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