To what extent did Muhammad meet the Messianic Requirements of Judaism and Christianity?

[TransmutingSoul]

Islam appears to have gone through a long slow decline from the end of the Islamic Golden age and has been slow to embrace modernity. The Islamic Golden age appears to have been (at least in part) the catalyst for the European Renaissance. The European renaissance has enabled the Gospel to be spread through all the nations (Matthew 24:14) coinciding with the Jewish diaspora ending (Luke 21:24) in the 19th century.

From what I understand Adrian, is that the decline initiated on the passing of Muhammad at the overriding of Ali as the rightfully appointed successor.

Yet the influence of Muhammad did bring about an age of progress, which in turn influenced other cultures. But this progress was always to be overshadowed by the negative influence initiated by that rejection of Ali. The Bible to me says this in the metaphor of the dead bodies laying in the streets.

Muhammad also foresaw this event, as you would be aware, in a shrouded prophecy of the invocation of, "there is no God, but God". The negative coming before the positive.

Thanks for the thread, lots to learn

Peace be with you.

 

[Muffled]

Though I cast my vote as completely, it will require one to look at the scriptures with new eyes to consider if this is the case.

Messanic expectations do not always fully unfold in the material world as we expect.

Peace be to all

I believe any view one presents to this extent must be illogical.

 

[Muffled]

That is definitely a plausable way to see it. The Message of Muhammad appears to have unfolded in this material world without fulfilling all Messanic requirements.

It will be interesting to explore other ways of considering those scriptures. I reflect on the passages that say every eye shall see, but consider we do need sleep and not every material eye does see

Peace be upon you and all.

I believe you are in error. A heavenly event taking place over a long period of time is viewable by people when they are awake and by every person on earth.

 

[Muffled]

Isaiah alluded to Revelations 1:7



The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make straight in the desert a highway for our God.
Every valley shall be exalted, and every mountain and hill shall be made low: and the crooked shall be made straight, and the rough places plain:
And the glory of the Lord shall be revealed, and all flesh shall see it together: for the mouth of the Lord hath spoken it.

Isaiah 40:3-5

John the Baptist and then Christ fulfilled this:

And he came into all the country about Jordan, preaching the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins;
As it is written in the book of the words of Esaias the prophet, saying, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight.
Every valley shall be filled, and every mountain and hill shall be brought low; and the crooked shall be made straight, and the rough ways shall be made smooth;

And all flesh shall see the salvation of God.

Luke 3:3-6

Sleep well

I believe the first part has been fulfilled but the second part refers to the second coming.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

I believe you are in error. A heavenly event taking place over a long period of time is viewable by people when they are awake and by every person on earth.

Agreed, as this is what I see that passage does mean, this is a sign that many have misunderstood. Thus apart from Christ, do you also see that Krishna, Zoroaster, Buddha, Muhammad and Baha'u'llah have fulfilled this requirement, to name a few?

Peace be with you.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

I believe the first part has been fulfilled but the second part refers to the second coming.

That would be a good observation.

Peace be with you

 

[j1i]

As there are plenty of rich and famous liars, you might not want to use "success" as a rubric.


The message spread, in part, due to coercion. I'd be more impressed if people just kinda absorbed their message without learning of them specifically.


Not at all even now, if watching what's going on in Israel is any inclination.


In all seriousness, how can relation to David be proven without DNA comparisons to prove it? We're only just recently able to look at DNA for ancestral cues, but even then, we would need David's to have any real evidence. Of course, if we believe the bible, half the region is probably related to David since he couldn't keep it in his pants.

The success of the limited is different from the success of the great
The success of 2 billion believers
Without the occupation of countries hostile to Islam, Islam was everywhere

 

[j1i]

With all due respect it is easy to repeat claims like this - but where is the evidence of this to be found? I am not aware of any extant copy of the Gospel of Barnabus being dated to any earlier than the late middle ages - long after Muhammad's life time.

I really respect you and like to talk to you for a reason
Because you are dealing with me without arrogantly
I think you should read this

SHOCK BIBLE CLAIM: Jesus was NOT crucified – it was actually JUDAS on the cross

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

The success of the limited is different from the success of the great
The success of 2 billion believers
Without the occupation of countries hostile to Islam, Islam was everywhere

I don't believe Truth is a function of popularity.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

I really respect you and like to talk to you for a reason
Because you are dealing with me without arrogantly
I think you should read this

SHOCK BIBLE CLAIM: Jesus was NOT crucified – it was actually JUDAS on the cross

Hello, do you know if, there is a Hadith that says Jesus was not crucified?
If Jesus was not crucified, wouldn't it make sense that at least there was a single Hadith either from Sunni or Shia collections be found?!

 

[siti]

I really respect you and like to talk to you for a reason
Because you are dealing with me without arrogantly
I think you should read this

SHOCK BIBLE CLAIM: Jesus was NOT crucified – it was actually JUDAS on the cross

At the risk of appearing somewhat more arrogant than you kindly suggested I might be - I don't base my assessment of ancient documents on what can be read in the Daily Express and Daily Mail. OK here are the facts regarding the Gospel of Barnabas as far as I am aware...

There are two early references to a previously unknown "Gospel of Barnabas" as part of the Christian Apocrypha and these references are dated to the 6th and 7th centuries but absolutely no reliable evidence at all exists to indicate what this Gospel of Barnabas might have contained.

Apart from copies of these catalogues listing the Gospel of Barnabas and a single possible (but certainly not verified) quotation discovered in other manuscripts (which has absolutely no theological value at all) there was no further sign of any Gospel of Barnabas until Italian and Spanish copies emerged about the late 16th /early 17th century.

The document supposedly found in Cyprus in 2000 and widely reported on in the media in 2012 is believed by scholars to be a hoax and to my knowledge, no scientific results have yet been reported regarding its age and origins.

I honestly don't think you should pin too much faith on that document - it is almost certainly a late medieval fake.

 

[j1i]

I don't believe Truth is a function of popularity.

True, the numbers may not be proof of the validity of the belief
But if you read the Qur'an, you will find that it is not written by Muhammad himself
It is unreasonable to say that this is the word of God and be successful in this manner

Every man has the freedom to choose through his convictions ^_^

 

[j1i]

ffff

At the risk of a late medieval fake.

You have the right to object and not to believe (if there is doubt)
But when we want to believe something, we must consider whether this is real or not

As an example in Christianity
How does the GOD (Jesus) grow and be created in the body of a pregnant woman (Mary)
Why do not they worship Mary and her family with Jesus?
Things are really confusing and we must search more and more

Also in some religions the processes of magic are brought closer and believe that the powers are divine
It is easy to detect that what magic does is to bring closer to the creature and not God
And he uses the powers of the devils

GOOD LUCK

 

[siti]

...if there is doubt

There is always doubt - of that there is no doubt. But that Jesus was not born of a virgin - no doubt about that - he was not. And they (at least some) do indeed worship Mary - and venerate her parents too - Imran and Hannah (Joachim and Anne) are saints in the Christian (Catholic) tradition.

Things are really confusing and we must search more and more

Indeed they are - and especially so when we allow doubt and questions in - but in order to reach a reasoned conclusion - a reasonable position - a realistic worldview - we must doubt and question. And we must be prepared 'not to know' some of the answers. If its faith you're looking for - then doubt and reason are your enemies. But if its understanding you're after, they are your best friends because they stubbornly refuse to lie to you - they keep on telling you that you really don't know for sure, if there is no certain answer. That's the opposite of religion - religion claims to know - for sure - no doubt at all - and it condemns doubters as "faithless". Well let me tell you right now - I am "faithless"...and free! Free to doubt and question anything and everything. Free to reason and think for myself. Free from what one of my freethinking heroes of the past, John Thelwall, called "the shackles of hereditary opinion" - because that's what religion really is.