To Those Whose Ears and Eyes and Hearts are Open

[Aštra’el]

opened orifices

 

[Milton Platt]

So I'm noticing a trend in proselytizing religions. It goes something like this:

If you listen/read/pray with a pure heart and open eyes/ears/heart, then you will come to believe in the same thing I have come to believe.
​

I've heard this from Christians, Muslims and Baha'i here. If I've heard you saying it, presumably you've all heard each other saying it as well. So here's the thing:

At what point do you say to yourself, "We're all making the exact same claim as the way to find faith in the religion we already believe in. Maybe all having a pure heart and opened orifices does is reinforce a belief or intensify a leaning that we already had."​

I mean think about it. There's a good chance that in the over one billion people in the religion you are not a part of, at least one or two of its more mild adherents was feeling terribly distraught and truly opened their hearts to whatever was out there. And came away with even deeper faith in their religion just like you did.

Maybe it just really doesn't work unless you're already inclined to believe in the religion you're a part of?

Did you notice that the words logic and critical thinking are not mentioned?

 

[George-ananda]

I think spirituality is the core of all of us and can be experienced. That fact is not exclusive to adherents of any one religion but everybody.

 

[loverofhumanity]

So I'm noticing a trend in proselytizing religions. It goes something like this:

If you listen/read/pray with a pure heart and open eyes/ears/heart, then you will come to believe in the same thing I have come to believe.
​

I've heard this from Christians, Muslims and Baha'i here. If I've heard you saying it, presumably you've all heard each other saying it as well. So here's the thing:

At what point do you say to yourself, "We're all making the exact same claim as the way to find faith in the religion we already believe in. Maybe all having a pure heart and opened orifices does is reinforce a belief or intensify a leaning that we already had."​

I mean think about it. There's a good chance that in the over one billion people in the religion you are not a part of, at least one or two of its more mild adherents was feeling terribly distraught and truly opened their hearts to whatever was out there. And came away with even deeper faith in their religion just like you did.

Maybe it just really doesn't work unless you're already inclined to believe in the religion you're a part of?

This is a term used often by the Manifestations of God which His followers repeat.

An example of it is told by Moses in Deuteronomy.

"And Moses called unto all Israel, and said unto them, Ye have seen all that the LORD did before your eyes in the land of Egypt unto Pharaoh, and unto all his servants, and unto all his land; The great temptations which thine eyes have seen, the signs, and those great miracles:

Yet the LORD hath not given you an heart to perceive, and eyes to see, and ears to hear, unto this day.” (Deuteronomy 29:2-4)

This points to another ear and eye that perceives and understands and is needed in order to see truth.

 

[David1967]

So I'm noticing a trend in proselytizing religions. It goes something like this:

If you listen/read/pray with a pure heart and open eyes/ears/heart, then you will come to believe in the same thing I have come to believe.
​

I've heard this from Christians, Muslims and Baha'i here. If I've heard you saying it, presumably you've all heard each other saying it as well. So here's the thing:

At what point do you say to yourself, "We're all making the exact same claim as the way to find faith in the religion we already believe in. Maybe all having a pure heart and opened orifices does is reinforce a belief or intensify a leaning that we already had."​

I mean think about it. There's a good chance that in the over one billion people in the religion you are not a part of, at least one or two of its more mild adherents was feeling terribly distraught and truly opened their hearts to whatever was out there. And came away with even deeper faith in their religion just like you did.

Maybe it just really doesn't work unless you're already inclined to believe in the religion you're a part of?

I get it. You make a very valid point. I find it interesting that Judaism does not proselytize (at least as far as ive been told)but the religions that are offshoots of Judaism do, such as my own. Hmmm.

 

[David1967]

When someone starts telling me, "the Bible says". I tell them I have never heard my Bible speak to me. And I know for a fact that it doesn't know what I'm going to do with those words I read, copy and paste, or memorize to try convince someone else that I'm a godly person. I could be a liar and the Bible wouldn't even know it.

My favorite is "My bible says", like what do they mean? Does there's say something different than mine? (I'm kinda poking a little fun at the screaming revival preachers of my youth. )

 

[robocop (actually)]

Well Raelians believe all religions (that don't say they're made up) and as for being unfalsifiable they claim that the book "The book which tells the truth" of Intelligent Design is incontestable proof that the one true God is an Alien or Aliens (in the book the Aliens are described as saying so). You have to study, not use emotions but you can see for yourself that so far it is incontestable proof.

Also, I would like to add that some religions become inconvenient to hard-liners and to the people they live with. Not so with Raelism. You don't have to burden anyone or yourself. It is easier to be Raelian / honorary Raelian than anything else even if you do think you have the most responsibility.

 

[arthra]

Tumah wrote above:

"So I'm noticing a trend in proselytizing religions. It goes something like this:
If you listen/read/pray with a pure heart and open eyes/ears/heart, then you will come to believe in the same thing I have come to believe.
I've heard this from Christians, Muslims and Baha'i here."

My reaction to your post above is that as a Baha'i on this forum I generally try to respond to peoples questions and present material explaining what the Faith is about. Proselytizing in my view involves putting some pressure on a person an enquirer and this really isn't my goal or intention to proselytize here. We do encourage people to seek out the truth of a matter and not simply accept something on faith or on authority.. better that the seeker applies their logic and sorts out things for themselves.

 

[Tumah]

I get it. You make a very valid point. I find it interesting that Judaism does not proselytize (at least as far as ive been told)

There is nothing to be gained by doing so.

but the religions that are offshoots of Judaism do, such as my own. Hmmm.

I've noticed.

 

[robocop (actually)]

You can read my own stance about Aliens being God in the free and removed chapter of my book (for MS Word and as a website) as the first link on www.raelish.com. My stances are always being upgraded by more thought. It kind of summarizes what I feel is special about Raelism.

Moderators: This is the only way I can think of to share all my views on Aliens.

 

[Tumah]

This is a term used often by the Manifestations of God which His followers repeat.

An example of it is told by Moses in Deuteronomy.

"And Moses called unto all Israel, and said unto them, Ye have seen all that the LORD did before your eyes in the land of Egypt unto Pharaoh, and unto all his servants, and unto all his land; The great temptations which thine eyes have seen, the signs, and those great miracles:

Yet the LORD hath not given you an heart to perceive, and eyes to see, and ears to hear, unto this day.” (Deuteronomy 29:2-4)

This points to another ear and eye that perceives and understands and is needed in order to see truth.

If G-d hadn't given them the ability to understand until Deuteronomy 29, then neither G-d nor Moses should have been complaining anything they did as it was never under their control. But they do. A number of times. What the verse is actuallysaying is:

G-d didn't give you a heart [to forget but rather] to understand and [G-d didn't give you] eyes [to turn away from, but rather] to see and [G-d didn't give you] ears [to ignore, but rather] to hear, until this day.

In other word,s Moses is reprimanding them for not using their hearts, eyes and ears for the right purpose.

 

[loverofhumanity]

If G-d hadn't given them the ability to understand until Deuteronomy 29, then neither G-d nor Moses should have been complaining anything they did as it was never under their control. But they do. A number of times. What the verse is actuallysaying is:

G-d didn't give you a heart [to forget but rather] to understand and [G-d didn't give you] eyes [to turn away from, but rather] to see and [G-d didn't give you] ears [to ignore, but rather] to hear, until this day.

In other word,s Moses is reprimanding them for not using their hearts, eyes and ears for the right purpose.

Yes we are given those faculties to be used for turning to God and obeying Him.

 

[GodsVoice]

My favorite is "My bible says", like what do they mean? Does there's say something different than mine? (I'm kinda poking a little fun at the screaming revival preachers of my youth. )

I have been preaching the words that God forms in my mind ( the Gospel ) for the past 8 years now on various internet sites and in the streets of Campbell, CA. where I spent the last 5 years witnessing thousands of people who were attracted to me by the messages I had to write on a whiteboard that I carried around on a handcart that I pushed all over Campbell, about a six mile hike each day. Many Christians were very offended by some messages God had me write on the board. They would come and try argue with me saying, "My Bible says". Then I would tell them that "Gods says". It's much worse in some of these religious forums that I've been in the past several years. I've heard some people say that the Bible is Jesus. That's when I know their thoughts don't line up with anything that God has revealed to me through the words he had me write and speak.

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

I know a number of staunch atheists and non-Christians who read through a Gospel with a Christian friend and are truly captivated and convinced by the words of God, convinced by the person of Jesus, His teaching and resurrection and give their lives to Him.

I question the loyalties of anyone who just "comes to Jesus" after a few words. These also tend to be the same types of people who want to see all references to other religions destroyed or else people will lose faith. I think what we have here are people who are willing to buy anything they see on a commercial, not people who truly experience a need to have a divine relationship of any sort.

In the following years, I had a number of further experiences that kept showing me the bad things that people who claim to be of pure and open heart do: some seem to do mostly good, or at least with good intent, but more seem to do bad, or seem to have bad intent.

This is due to the fact you can be a pure heart and be purely compassionate or purely selfish.

 

[GodsVoice]

My thoughts on proselytizing are the following;

Whenever a religious person gives you consequences of not believing his interpretations of what he reads in a holy book or what he has been taught by another person, then that religious person is trying to get you to believe his thoughts are more important than yours. The "hell" belief is a proselytizing comment that many religious people use to try scare someone else into their way of thinking.

Another proselytizing comment is when a religious person puts down another person's religion as if it's inferior to the religion that he believes in.

When a person gets angry trying to share his thoughts with you, then you know you're dealing with someone who is trying to proselytize you into their way of thinking.

There are many religious people who use subtle "proselytizing" statements in forums like this and get away with it because they have learned the art of proselytizing without offending you too much. At least not enough to get you to push the "report" button.

Another form of proselytizing in forums like this is using scriptures from the holy books to talk to each other with. This form of proselytizing is usually acceptable unless someone gets offended and hits the "report" button or is a coward and sends an email to the moderators.

I have witnessed all forms of proselytizing in written and spoken words and it's always interesting to me how brain-washed they are by false prophets and their own interpretations of what they read in their holy books.

 

[Shem Ben Noah]

I get it. You make a very valid point. I find it interesting that Judaism does not proselytize...

Cause they just don't care about others? At least proselytizing faiths give a ****.

 

[Tumah]

Tumah wrote above:

"So I'm noticing a trend in proselytizing religions. It goes something like this:
If you listen/read/pray with a pure heart and open eyes/ears/heart, then you will come to believe in the same thing I have come to believe.
I've heard this from Christians, Muslims and Baha'i here."

My reaction to your post above is that as a Baha'i on this forum I generally try to respond to peoples questions and present material explaining what the Faith is about. Proselytizing in my view involves putting some pressure on a person an enquirer and this really isn't my goal or intention to proselytize here. We do encourage people to seek out the truth of a matter and not simply accept something on faith or on authority.. better that the seeker applies their logic and sorts out things for themselves.

What you have done and what has been done by followers of your religion, may not be the same.

I recommend using the "quote" or "@" feature in the future as it was only by chance that I noticed you had commented on my post.

 

[Tumah]

I agree, but isn't it also possible to overcome personal inclinations?

Maybe. But how often is that really recognizable? I mean, why would someone choose to convert to something they are inclined against, without first becoming inclined to? And if they are inclined to it, what made them that way - or maybe: how even was the playing field?

 

[Rick O'Shez]

So I'm noticing a trend in proselytizing religions. It goes something like this:

If you listen/read/pray with a pure heart and open eyes/ears/heart, then you will come to believe in the same thing I have come to believe.
​

I've heard this from Christians, Muslims and Baha'i here. If I've heard you saying it, presumably you've all heard each other saying it as well. So here's the thing:

At what point do you say to yourself, "We're all making the exact same claim as the way to find faith in the religion we already believe in. Maybe all having a pure heart and opened orifices does is reinforce a belief or intensify a leaning that we already had."​

I mean think about it. There's a good chance that in the over one billion people in the religion you are not a part of, at least one or two of its more mild adherents was feeling terribly distraught and truly opened their hearts to whatever was out there. And came away with even deeper faith in their religion just like you did.

Maybe it just really doesn't work unless you're already inclined to believe in the religion you're a part of?

It sounds like an appeal to gullibility, an encouragement to switch off critical thinking.

 

[Kirran]

Religious experiences or conversion via experience can be much more profound than what you seem to imagine. Your perspective, although 'logical', to your own experience/assumptions, etc, is actually not accurate in many cases.

We notice this consistently on the forums, an assumption of ''why'' someone adheres to a certain religion, so forth, yet, it is not actually inferred from facts, rather ones /usually own perspective.

Example, I personally have no ''reason'' to think 'Christianity'' is a real religion, no inclination to do so, no church, not baptized, don't think that I ''have'' to be a Christian, etc etc. /ie i'm not a Christian

Yet, I argue many things from a Christian standpoint on the forums.
why?
whyyyyy...
perhaps I am arguing subjects from an actu l perspective of thinking they are correct, and not basing it on emotions.

True enough all, but experience and emotion aren't quite the same. Religious/spiritual experience is kind of at another level.