To the religious who believe the end is near

[darkendless]

Ok, for the sake of this discussion i'm going to make a few assumptions.

Firstly i'll assume that 2012 really is the last year on earth as we know it (as painful as it is for me to make such an assumption without a snide comment).

Secondly I will assume that everything is part of God's plan.

Now, based on recent events in Japan and New Zealand, which as assumed in point two are part of God's divine plan, how can a Christian/ Muslim/ <insert other theistic religion> (please spare me technicalities and stereotype policing) justify the destruction of these so called end times?

This is not meant to be a "lets bash religion" topic, I am sincerely interested in justifying horrific destruction which, according to a select few, are all part of some divine plan.

More specifically:
- If it really is the end times, why does God delay our demise and instead instill fear and mass suffering?
- Why is it necessary to torture those who are faithful to God along with those who are not? I have always been under the rather broad assumption that if cataclysmic destruction were to occur, your God would save your bacon and let us heathens drown. However, recent events have shown that powerful natural disasters do not make such distinctions.

In general, my concern is how one can justify mass suffering. What means to an end is achieved by causing carnage if is your God responsible for this? What does anyone or anything stand to gain through suffering and furthermore i'm curious as to why?

 

[Rainbow Mage]

Good question, but I doubt you'll receive a good answer. The Christians will say you can't question God's ways, and the Muslims will tell you the hadiths about Muhammad say so, so it must be true.

 

[Mahatma Gandhi]

In general, my concern is how one can justify mass suffering. What means to an end is achieved by causing carnage if is your God responsible for this? What does anyone or anything stand to gain through suffering and furthermore i'm curious as to why?

What's the first commandment? Thou shalt have no other gods before me. What do people normally do? Worship a lot of gods like money, success, fame etc.; they worship all these gods except THE GOD. The result: God beats the c**p out of us.

 

[darkendless]

What's the first commandment? Thou shalt have no other gods before me. What do people normally do? Worship a lot of gods like money, success, fame etc.; they worship all these gods except THE GOD. The result: God beats the c**p out of us.

That leads to another question. Why is God such a sadist. He's like a spoilt brat who isn't getting what he wants so he causes suffering.

Hence why i asked the original question.

 

[Pegg]

Ok, for the sake of this discussion i'm going to make a few assumptions.

Firstly i'll assume that 2012 really is the last year on earth as we know it (as painful as it is for me to make such an assumption without a snide comment).

Secondly I will assume that everything is part of God's plan.

your assumption is wrong from this point

Gods plan involves restoring all things to the way they were purposed to be.

Now, based on recent events in Japan and New Zealand, which as assumed in point two are part of God's divine plan, how can a Christian/ Muslim/ <insert other theistic religion> (please spare me technicalities and stereotype policing) justify the destruction of these so called end times?

wrong on both counts.

the end times are the result of mankinds failed rule...they describe how life will be without Gods guiding hand. When mankind run things into the ground, life will be difficult for everyone including the environment which is now beginning to show signs of stress. When a natural disaster occurs, it occurs because things are going wrong due to our mismanagement of the earth... not because God is standing around whipping up the seas and hurling lightening bolts

More specifically:
- If it really is the end times, why does God delay our demise and instead instill fear and mass suffering?

he is not delaying our 'demise', he is delaying for our salvation
2 Peter 3:9 “Jehovah is not slow respecting his promise, as some people consider slowness, but he is patient with you because he does not desire any to be destroyed but desires all to attain to repentance.”

- Why is it necessary to torture those who are faithful to God along with those who are not? I have always been under the rather broad assumption that if cataclysmic destruction were to occur, your God would save your bacon and let us heathens drown. However, recent events have shown that powerful natural disasters do not make such distinctions.

we are independent and self governed... if you want help, ask your government to save you.
If we choose Gods rulership, then he is in a position to save us...if we reject him, then we must save ourselves.

In general, my concern is how one can justify mass suffering. What means to an end is achieved by causing carnage if is your God responsible for this? What does anyone or anything stand to gain through suffering and furthermore i'm curious as to why?

God does not like to see anyone suffer. He prefers that we live in peace andharmony and has given us his laws and standards to enable us to know how we can do that...but mankind dont want it. And because of our independence, we suffer.

Its unfortunate that it has taken 6,000 years of human suffering and people still dont realise it but choose to blame God.

 

[zenzero]

Friend darkendless,

You have missed the happenings in the Islamic countries besides the fire and floods in Australia recently and loss of much crops due to rains/snow fall till recently.

Truly, it only means a GREAT CHANGE. [in the physical, economical, social worlds etc.]
Existence WAS there, IS here and WILL be there.

What visionaries have seen are the end of their own vision which too has limits but existence is eternal and not restricted by the mind that visualizes.

Love & rgds

 

[Cordoba]

In general, my concern is how one can justify mass suffering. What means to an end is achieved by causing carnage if is your God responsible for this? What does anyone or anything stand to gain through suffering and furthermore i'm curious as to why?

There is no straight answer to your question, but you may wish to look at this answer:

God is Merciful, Why Does He Allow Suffering?

God is Merciful, Why Does He Allow Suffering? - Growing in Faith - Reading Islam - OnIslam.net

 

[Rakhel]

What's the first commandment? Thou shalt have no other gods before me. What do people normally do? Worship a lot of gods like money, success, fame etc.; they worship all these gods except THE GOD. The result: God beats the c**p out of us.

Actually the first commandment is "Be fruitful" followed by "multiply". But that is neither here nor there.


UHHHH...destruction of the world. that's where we were. Let's see.



WE"RE ALL GONNA DIE!!!!!(insert scene from Texas Chainsaw Massacre.) :faint:

 

[Frank Merton]

What's the first commandment? Thou shalt have no other gods before me. What do people normally do? Worship a lot of gods like money, success, fame etc.; they worship all these gods except THE GOD. The result: God beats the c**p out of us.

That is the problem with Abrahamic religions -- they have a "jealous" god who is wrathful and brutally punishes anyone with a different viewpoint.

Why? If their god is Who they say He is, what has He to be jealous of?

I must say, though, that this one commandment has probably killed more people than any other utterance in history, as believers rush out to kill heretics and infidels and other non-believers.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

I have no Idea what God's plan Is..
I have no Idea when the world will come to an end.
I connect neither of these with sin, punishment nor the wrath of God.

Fire, earthquakes floods and eruptions. are a natural consequence of the structure of the earth, it's slow cooling and the pull of the moon. If it were not as it is, the earth would not be a virile and fertile as it is.

 

[Breathe]

Don't believe in an end of world from supernatural occurences, especially not a near one.
But I'm so subbing to this thread.

Popcorn, anyone?

 

[Rakhel]

Don't believe in an end of world from supernatural occurences, especially not a near one.
But I'm so subbing to this thread.

Popcorn, anyone?

thought you'd never askopcorn:

 

[Beta]

Why? If their god is Who they say He is, what has He to be jealous of?

Our love and faithfulness :yes:. That we may be ONE with God and in God !

 

[Breathe]

Our love and faithfulness :yes:. That we may be ONE with God and in God !

How do you interpret that?
I bet it's very different from my own interpretation. Which isn't relevant to discussion; I'm more interested in what you take it to mean.

 

[Cordoba]

This is a summary of an answer from a Muslim perspective to a similar question:

Why does Allah allow Suffering and Evil in the World?

Sufferings occur to teach us that we must adhere to Allah’s natural and moral laws. It is sometimes to punish those who violate Allah’s natural or moral laws. It is to test our faith in Allah and to test our commitment to human values and charity. Whenever we encounter suffering we should ask ourselves, “Have we broken any law of Allah?” Let us study the cause of the problem and use the corrective methods. “Could it be a punishment?” Let us repent and ask forgiveness and reform our ways. “Could it be a test and trial for us?” Let us work hard to pass this test.

Believers face the sufferings with prayers, repentance and good deeds. The non-believers face the sufferings with doubts and confusions. They blame Allah or make arguments against Him

Why Does Allah Allow Suffering and Evil in the World? - Muslim Belief - counsels - OnIslam.net

 

[Beta]

How do you interpret that?
I bet it's very different from my own interpretation. Which isn't relevant to discussion; I'm more interested in what you take it to mean.

It means just what it says. Perhaps a look at Joh.17 might help clarify :yes:.

 

[1whirlwind]

Our love and faithfulness :yes:. That we may be ONE with God and in God !

:clap

 

[Beta]

:clap

WOW !!!
A comrade in arms ?
They are indeed few and far between .

 

[starlite]

I have no Idea what God's plan Is..
I have no Idea when the world will come to an end.
I connect neither of these with sin, punishment nor the wrath of God.

Fire, earthquakes floods and eruptions. are a natural consequence of the structure of the earth, it's slow cooling and the pull of the moon. If it were not as it is, the earth would not be a virile and fertile as it is.

Matthew 24:7; Mark 13:8; Luke 21:11

Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places.

Keep in mind that God doesn't cause these events...he only allows them to show man's inability to govern himself independent of God. The ruin of the earth is the result of man's failure to be successful. God will intervene to correct things...keep praying for God's kingdom to come.

 

[BruceDLimber]

In fact, the End Times came and went about a century and a half ago! And the prophecies referred to the end of the Age, not of the world (which was a mistranslation of the original Greek). The Christ Spirit already reappeared then as prophesied.

So sorry you missed it.

Bruce