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To the Jehovah's witnesses in RF

Spirit of Light

Be who ever you want
When I got the link to your website, I used less then 5 minutes to realize why I had an anger problem here in RF :) some of the information i read was very eye opening even for me as a Baha'i:)

There is probably area within your teaching i will disagree on. Butbi would love to discuss with members of JW in this tread if you like so.
 

The Hammer

[REDACTED]
Premium Member
My biggest issue with JWs comes from their medical procedure restrictions, and the lack of celebratory holidays.
 

The Hammer

[REDACTED]
Premium Member
Why would you say its a big issues for you?

Any faith that denies medical procedures to a person (blood transfusions, etc), I find not a true religion. As they should be about helping a person live their fullest life, and not allowing unnecessary suffering.

And, I've always liked Holidays. Having a time and date to honor the Gods in an elaborate or simple fashion to ones liking is important. I find that the Gods enjoy this sort of celebration, and want us to do it in remembrance of them, and to give us a time to unwind and relax.
 

Spirit of Light

Be who ever you want
Any faith that denies medical procedures to a person (blood transfusions, etc), I find not a true religion. As they should be about helping a person live their fullest life, and not allowing unnecessary suffering.

And, I've always liked Holidays. Having a time and date to honor the Gods in an elaborate or simple fashion to ones liking is important. I find that the Gods enjoy this sort of celebration, and want us to do it in remembrance of them, and to give us a time to unwind and relax.
Are you aware even i am not a JW my self, I too refuse to get blood transfusion because I believe it is a wrong thing to do (to me)
 

The Hammer

[REDACTED]
Premium Member
Are you aware even i am not a JW my self, I too refuse to get blood transfusion because I believe it is a wrong thing to do (to me)

I know you aren't JW. And refusing a transfusion is your own prerogative, but it is very much against the ideals I hold for a religion.

A lot of the time, those that hold these views also push the same ideals on their children, even when sick and dying. I disagree with it.

But I'm willing to let others do what they feel is right, inasmuch as it doesn't harm others.

(And it harm none, do what thou wilt).
 

The Sum of Awe

Brought to you by the moment that spacetime began.
Why would you say its a big issues for you?
Because denial of medicine and medical procedures is a very unhealthy philosophy, and I don't think I'd have to go into detail as to why (it speaks for itself).

And not allowing for celebration? What are we, in The Giver? If you ask me joy is an essential aspect to a life well lived. To isolate people from certain celebrations that do no harm and only bring smiles to faces and the warmth of love to hearts, that's the coldest reality ever. It doesn't help that the people unwillingly raised into this cult are unable to escape this cold, gray reality lest they be not only separated from, but shamed by their family and friends and everyone they've ever known.
 

Spirit of Light

Be who ever you want
Because denial of medicine and medical procedures is a very unhealthy philosophy, and I don't think I'd have to go into detail as to why (it speaks for itself).

And not allowing for celebration? What are we, in The Giver? If you ask me joy is an essential aspect to a life well lived. To isolate people from certain celebrations that do no harm and only bring smiles to faces and the warmth of love to hearts, that's the coldest reality ever. It doesn't help that the people unwillingly raised into this cult are unable to escape this cold, gray reality lest they be not only separated from, but shamed by their family and friends and everyone they've ever known.
Just as JW, personally I do not celebrate similar days as them i stopped doing that after I become an adult person. So I can't see the big issue, sorry
 
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Vee

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
When I got the link to your website, I used less then 5 minutes to realize why I had an anger problem here in RF :) some of the information i read was very eye opening even for me as a Baha'i:)

There is probably area within your teaching i will disagree on. Butbi would love to discuss with members of JW in this tread if you like so.

I'll be very happy to discuss whatever you want, as part of a threat or in PM. Have a lovely day.
 

The Sum of Awe

Brought to you by the moment that spacetime began.
Just as JW, personally I do not celebrate similar days as them i stopped doing that after I become an adult person. So I can't see the big issue, sorry
That's fine as a personal choice, I'm talking about raising children into a way of life like that. It's very depressing for JW children seeing families talking about Christmas and seeing themes of it but unable to do things like that. At least, that's how a lot of ex-JW's I've met claimed to have felt.
 

Spirit of Light

Be who ever you want
I'll be very happy to discuss whatever you want, as part of a threat or in PM. Have a lovely day.
Thank you @Vee

Since others has mention it already, do you know the bible verse where it speak of blood transfusion? Is it that big deal for JW's or is it just critiques of your faith that use it as an excuse to critique JW?
 

Vee

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Any faith that denies medical procedures to a person (blood transfusions, etc), I find not a true religion. As they should be about helping a person live their fullest life, and not allowing unnecessary suffering.

And, I've always liked Holidays. Having a time and date to honor the Gods in an elaborate or simple fashion to ones liking is important. I find that the Gods enjoy this sort of celebration, and want us to do it in remembrance of them, and to give us a time to unwind and relax.

We have our reasons for that, which are always justified by the Bible.
Just because we refuse blood, that doesn't mean we refuse medical procedures. There are plenty of procedures we accept. There are also great, safe, alternatives to blood transfusions today that sometimes people aren't even aware off because they don't ask.
As for the holidays, I understand that you like them and it's hard to let go of something we like. But let me tell you something: not celebrating Xmas - what a blessing! Every year in December I get to save money, I don't buy stuff no one needs with money I can use for more important things, and I don't eat and drink like the world is going to end. Religion or no region, I'm never going to celebrate Xmas again in my life and I'm so glad. What a relief.
 

The Hammer

[REDACTED]
Premium Member
We have our reasons for that, which are always justified by the Bible.
Just because we refuse blood, that doesn't mean we refuse medical procedures. There are plenty of procedures we accept. There are also great, safe, alternatives to blood transfusions today that sometimes people aren't even aware off because they don't ask.
As for the holidays, I understand that you like them and it's hard to let go of something we like. But let me tell you something: not celebrating Xmas - what a blessing! Every year in December I get to save money, I don't buy stuff no one needs with money I can use for more important things, and I don't eat and drink like the world is going to end. Religion or no region, I'm never going to celebrate Xmas again in my life and I'm so glad. What a relief.

There may be alternatives but not always. Which is why I said I respect peoples decision to do it, just not at the expense of the vulnerable (their children). As.fsr as Christmas or Yule goes, I spend very little. Temperance goes a long way. $25 per person, and always something they've said they needed throughout the year. I spend very little around the holidays.

Also, the Holidays I celebrate (the Wheel of the year), aren't for me; they are solely dedicated to the Gods or service to others.
 

The Hammer

[REDACTED]
Premium Member
We have our reasons for that, which are always justified by the Bible.
Just because we refuse blood, that doesn't mean we refuse medical procedures. There are plenty of procedures we accept. There are also great, safe, alternatives to blood transfusions today that sometimes people aren't even aware off because they don't ask.
As for the holidays, I understand that you like them and it's hard to let go of something we like. But let me tell you something: not celebrating Xmas - what a blessing! Every year in December I get to save money, I don't buy stuff no one needs with money I can use for more important things, and I don't eat and drink like the world is going to end. Religion or no region, I'm never going to celebrate Xmas again in my life and I'm so glad. What a relief.

Also, transfusions can't always be prevented in the event of blood loss:

"When getting ready for an operation, the need for blood transfusion can be decreased or avoided by careful planning. However, using patient blood management strategies does not rule out the possibility of needing a blood transfusion."

Edit: seperate link from above quote; https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.ca...-donation/blood-transfusion-alternatives.html

"So far, there is no real substitute for human blood. But researchers are working to develop a liquid that can carry oxygen and replace blood, at least for a short time, in certain situations.

Some products being tested can do some of the work of red blood cells, such as carrying oxygen to tissues, but cannot replace the many other functions of human blood."
 

Quagmire

Imaginary talking monkey
Staff member
Premium Member
***Mod Post***
This is the Interfaith Discussion forum. Questions, answers, and discussion of individual faiths and beliefs is allowed here. Critique, criticism, or anything else that's liable to lead to a debate is not allowed.
 

Vee

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Thank you @Vee

Since others has mention it already, do you know the bible verse where it speak of blood transfusion? Is it that big deal for JW's or is it just critiques of your faith that use it as an excuse to critique JW?

I know the fact we refuse blood transfusions raises concerns and I understand the critics, even if the majority of time they have nothing to worry about and it's not that much of an issue given the amount of alternatives available today.
In Leviticus 17:14 we read "The life of every sort of flesh is its blood". Blood represents life, and since life is sacred, blood is sacred. Acts 15: 29 also says "keep abstaining from blood". But what does abstaining mean? When you abstain from something you don't stop consuming it in one form to consume in a different way - that wouldn't qualify as abstaining. Likewise the command to abstain from blood doesn't just include eating food with blood, but also injecting it in our veins.
That doesn't mean we want to die or suffer, or that we don't love our children like so many people like to imply. When a blood transfusion is needed, we look for alternative treatments, and there are many more available than people know about. I invite you to do some personal research on that. You'll be amazed at how far medicine has come in that area.
Here's some information from our website, but please make sure to check other sources as well: https://www.jw.org/en/news/releases/by-region/italy/interview-professor-massimo-franchi-md/
 

Spirit of Light

Be who ever you want
I know the fact we refuse blood transfusions raises concerns and I understand the critics, even if the majority of time they have nothing to worry about and it's not that much of an issue given the amount of alternatives available today.
In Leviticus 17:14 we read "The life of every sort of flesh is its blood". Blood represents life, and since life is sacred, blood is sacred. Acts 15: 29 also says "keep abstaining from blood". But what does abstaining mean? When you abstain from something you don't stop consuming it in one form to consume in a different way - that wouldn't qualify as abstaining. Likewise the command to abstain from blood doesn't just include eating food with blood, but also injecting it in our veins.
That doesn't mean we want to die or suffer, or that we don't love our children like so many people like to imply. When a blood transfusion is needed, we look for alternative treatments, and there are many more available than people know about. I invite you to do some personal research on that. You'll be amazed at how far medicine has come in that area.
Here's some information from our website, but please make sure to check other sources as well: https://www.jw.org/en/news/releases/by-region/italy/interview-professor-massimo-franchi-md/
Thank you for sharing this :)
I will certainly look at the link
 
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