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To survive - lose religious faith

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by Pah, Jul 5, 2005.

  1. robtex

    robtex Veteran Member

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    Here is a better way to quantify this. If you look judiasm in the torah God (hashem) comes, kicks tail and the Jews get Israel, a covenent with their God and all the riches attachted with that. But modern Judiasm is one of the more humanistic religions out there. I believe it is because rabbitical law and the talmud have positioned, or marketed their God with peace and love. Christians and Muslims do the same but inconsitantly. The net result constrasting the two is quantifable. Christians and muslims have a pleothra of hate groups using God as a justification while the Jews have few to none. None that I am aware of.

    The paradigm of positioning God (aka maketing) as love and thus imcompatalbe with hate, attacking (not defense of) others has been done successfully by the Jews in the last thousand years plus a little bit at a time. I personally fault the christians and muslims for not following suit and instead openly propogating the notion that their God jusfies war and concuring.

    Take UU as a second example. UU for the last few centuries has been synonamous with peace and love. The result= no god justifing war.

    Hinduism, with their "many paths one truth" and post Gandhi hindu take have gone in the same direction. Wars jusified by taoism, buddhism, janaism ect ect..non existant.

    The difference: muslim and christainty demand total submission to Gods will and need the other religions focus on a pacifistic and humanistic lifestyle. similar beliefs, or overlapping believes but different focus. Hence my idea to market god as love to deter wars justified by God. As a species what to do we have to lose? war?
     
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  2. kassi

    kassi Member

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    If I had nothing more to hope in, than what I see around me or what only this world has to offer, then I might as well perish now. By the way I think eternal Life, without worries about tommorow or death or sorrows or misery or pain is a wonderful thing to hope for. A goal for the future worth investing in.
    So if I spend "my" life doing or believing what I think is needed to gain this life, what business is that of anyone else. By the way my "religion" is very simple,brings no harm whatsoever to others, only takes a promise and faith. And for those that think there is nothing more than this life why should they care what other people do to get through it? Some would say some religions and faith cause harm to others, this is true. But there have also been many non-religious "righteous" causes that also bring harm to others. So whats the verdict? Have something to hope in while your going thru this short, short life or just except your short pitiful existance as it is?
     
  3. kassi

    kassi Member

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    People spend way to much time worrying about what "other" people are doing, instead of what they themselves are doing?
     
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  4. jewscout

    jewscout Religious Zionist

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    the purpose of my response Voxton was to show that the statement you made previously showed a lack of knowledge in some of the causes for these events and the fact that not all memebers of those faiths support those sort of acts shows that religion isn't the sole cause of said events. Much of the warfare done throughout history has its roots more in a desire for money and power and less about religious zeal. Religion was the way the people who pulled the strings got the little guy to go out and die.
    Today Dubya uses patriotism instead.
     
  5. Voxton

    Voxton ·

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    Good fracking grief -- "Today Dubya uses patriotism instead..." And what do you think Dubya has been using, to get elected -- something OTHER than religion?

    Dude. C'mon...

    If the purpose of your response was to demonstrate my lack of knowledge in the historical events I quoted, hey -- you didn't do a very good job of it. Sorry. You just didn't. That's the truth.
     
  6. michel

    michel Administrator Emeritus
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    You seem to be unable to understand the viewpoint that neither God nor Jesus would intercede in these wars; what on Earth would be the practicality of God, standing 'on top' of man, jerking him by the collar every time he did something wrong ?

    For a start that would totally negate the idea of us each having the opition of choice. If everytime , say, I come across a position where I can either take a 'good' step, or a 'bad' one, God yanked me by the collar if I went down the 'wrong' route, what would the point of our lives be. We have to be allowed to sin, in order to have choice. Sure, if we do take the 'right' path, then there's 'credit on account' - but each time we take the 'wrong' path, we will pay for it. If from no other point than pure and simple:-
    2 Kings 19:29 And this shall be a sign unto thee, Ye shall eat this year such things as grow of themselves, and in the second year that which springeth of the same; and in the third year sow ye, and reap, and plant vineyards, and eat the fruits thereof.

    Isaiah 37:30 And this shall be a sign unto thee, Ye shall eat this year such as groweth of itself; and the second year that which springeth of the same: and in the third year sow ye, and reap, and plant vineyards, and eat the fruit thereof.

    Leviticus 25:11 A jubilee shall that fiftieth year be unto you: ye shall not sow, neither reap that which groweth of itself in it, nor gather the grapes in it of thy vine undressed.
    Jeremiah 12:13 They have sown wheat, but shall reap thorns: they have put themselves to pain, but shall not profit: and they shall be ashamed of your revenues because of the fierce anger of the LORD.
    Which all seem to me to indicate that, if we do wrong, then we will have wrong thrown back at us.

    The Religious 'aspect' of life, as far as I am concerned, (and I think I speak for others), is that we are put on Earth, with the potential to do good or bad deeds; at the end of our lives, there is a time of reckoning. It would therefore be crass to think that each time we were at the point of doing wron, God tapped our shoulder and said "I would'nt do that if I were you, 'cos I'll punish you at the end of your life!" ..............:)


     
  7. jewscout

    jewscout Religious Zionist

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    First the Crusades, one of the biggest examples some use to condemn religion. If religion was THE motivating factor it took the west a great deal of time to decide to take action...
    and then when a decision was made to fight we see factors such as personal political gain...
    There was even some question as to the doctrinal justification of the Crusades...but when it comes to power and money there's always a way...
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crusade

    If you check here... http://www.unf.edu/classes/medieval/med-17.htm you will find that religion is the quick answer but the causes of the the Crusades are many and complex
     
  8. jewscout

    jewscout Religious Zionist

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  9. jewscout

    jewscout Religious Zionist

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    even the Spanish Inquisition was a tool for political, not religious, ends...


    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_Inquisition
     
  10. jewscout

    jewscout Religious Zionist

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    Now as far as Arab Terrorism goes (including the intifada and 9/11) it is another complex situation...
    http://www.aucegypt.edu/faculty/sedgwick/hist462td.html
     
  11. robtex

    robtex Veteran Member

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    I am not saying God or Jesus are doing anything. I am saying that war, destruction and hate are attached to more christians groups...actually to name them all would take quite a while because there are more hate groups attached to Jesus than every other living religion practiced today combined.

    I think that is because Christianty is marketed poorly. We have had two crusades and a world war done in Jesus's name plus thousands of smaller wars. mIllions have been burned alive at the stake as sacrifices to Jesus in the last two centuries and more hate groups from Godhatesfags.com to the kkk require a belief in Jesus for membership.

    I am not it is because Jesus is against homosexuality is pro sacrifce or hates blacks. I am saying it is because christianty is not marketed as a religion of peace well enough and that the ones who are more pacifistically inclinded are apathetic to the more miltaristic or even suppotive at times.

    Your religion collectively is permissive of barbaric acts discrimmination, sexism because of the way it is marketed that way by the pastors and clergy of that religion. Irregardless if your jesus is hip to that or not. I am suggesting that using its cousin,
    Judiasm as a working model that maybe if they pushe dor a more humanistic agenda over time, as in judaism a gentler expression of their fatih would emerge amoungs jesus followers.
     
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