To speak only truth

[Polymath257]

There are times when the 'truth' is possibly not the best answer.

How often has a husband truthfully answered his wife's question, "Does my bum look big in this?"

I prefer the phrasing 'That doesn't flatter your figure'.

Would you tell a dying child they are going to die soon?

Did they ask?

Most religions lie to their flocks. There is no evidence of any god but they all say there is.

No argument here

 

[dybmh]

All i can answer is that one part of Falun Gong is to spread its teaching so as many can hear about it, but of course, never force or try to force someone to become a practitioner

Yes. I guess so. My friends didn't adopt this practice. But the point is... spreading the teaching is proselytizing. If your intention is to spread the teaching per Master Li, then, that's a potential problem here on RF. Because denying the goal to proselytize it undermines the stated goal of a Falun Dafa cultivator: speaking truthfully.

From a practical perspective it is difficult to be in your position if you feel it is incumbent on you to spread the teaching here on RF in a manner which is also consistent with Master Li's request to only speak about Falun Gong using his own quoted words, that's going to be difficult for anyone. I don't see that as possible here while strictly following the RF rules.

But don't take it too seriously. Please understand, If the topic of proselytizing comes up... especially in a thread titled: "Speak only truth", my very literal mind has a hard time not answering truthfully and completely.

 

[Heyo]

Yes. And it's appropriate, right? Because the student enrolled in the class?

Yes. As long as you don't have a captive audience, are not off-topic and adhere to the rules of discussion, you should be allowed to "lecture" about your beliefs.
On RF everybody is able to simply ignore you. Religion is the main topic here so you are not off-topic.

 

[Nakosis]

Human beings are known for twisting the truth to avoid unpleasant situations. But why should we twist the truth when it is the truth that will enlighten us?
We are all on a journey through life where one time or another we have told untruth, But how does that make us feel afterward? Is it not worth struggling to become 100% truthful even it hurts in the short run, but save us in the long run?

Is it not just an attachment that keeps us from speaking the truth? the attachment of feeling hurt when someone gets angry at us because we speak the truth.
If we look at it deeper, is it not the person who feels angry that is truly suffering and not us?

Truth is a difficult word to come to terms with at times. I can't guarantee what I understand as truth is universal. There's some religious folks certain of a truth that is difficult to validate, yet they'll go through life confident in its truthfulness.

While I believe it is important to be truthful to oneself, I'm not as certain at the necessity of being truthful to the world at large. Some folks will use the truth against you. They'll use the truth to turn others against you. While I try not to lie without cause I do find it reasonable to not always be truthful. There's no point in being truthful to those who intend you harm. Especially when the truth is of no particular benefit to them other than to cause me or someone else grief.

In cases where I feel is is reasonable to not tell the truth, I don't feel any guilt over that.

The truth will set you free from what, feeling guilty? What about where it is reasonable to not to feel guilty about a lie?

 

[Nakosis]

I don’t idolise truth telling but I do value it very very highly

I kind of wonder if we can become attached to this idea of always needing to tell the truth.

 

[Spirit of Light]

Truth is a difficult word to come to terms with at times. I can't guarantee what I understand as truth is universal. There's some religious folks certain of a truth that is difficult to validate, yet they'll go through life confident in its truthfulness.

While I believe it is important to be truthful to oneself, I'm not as certain at the necessity of being truthful to the world at large. Some folks will use the truth against you. They'll use the truth to turn others against you. While I try not to lie without cause I do find it reasonable to not always be truthful. There's no point in being truthful to those who intend you harm. Especially when the truth is of no particular benefit to them other than to cause me or someone else grief.

In cases where I feel is is reasonable to not tell the truth, I don't feel any guilt over that.

The truth will set you free from what, feeling guilty? What about where it is reasonable to not to feel guilty about a lie?

Guilt when lies only give a person the chance to discover that telling lies lead to suffering, and they get time to realize that next time they get into the same situation lies does not help so maybe next time they speak the truth when thinking of telling a lie. Speak the truth and no guilt is needed.

 

[dybmh]

Yes. As long as you don't have a captive audience, are not off-topic and adhere to the rules of discussion, you should be allowed to "lecture" about your beliefs.
On RF everybody is able to simply ignore you. Religion is the main topic here so you are not off-topic.

Yes, of course.

However, the negative reaction by some people here on RF is natural, I think. And this is often not acknowledged by those who come here intending to preach to a large audience. That's really my whole reason for replying to the OP and participating in this thread. Yes, I could ignore it. But, I think I have a unique perspective because, I know Falun Gong. And I view this thread as an honest request for information / request for comment. I think my participation has been helpful. ( But I could be wrong... I could be very-very wrong )

Also, arguably what you are describing "lecturing" is not part of the RF mission because it does discourage a diverse community. Atheists and Agnostics, I imagine, come here hoping not to get preached at. And it wouldn't be good for those folks to be pushed away by people who come here and preach in spite of the rules and in spite of the mission of RF. It's a grey area in my opinion, quite honestly. Allowing one person to lecture is a bit of a slippery slope, especially if viewed through the lens of a moderation team trying to stay objective and enforce the rules fairly. ( But that doesn't mean I report it when I see it... I leave that to people who are **actually** bothered by these things )

 

[Vinayaka]

Yes, of course.

However, the negative reaction by some people here on RF is natural, I think. And this is often not acknowledged by those who come here intending to preach to a large audience. That's really my whole reason for replying to the OP and participating in this thread. Yes, I could ignore it. But, I think I have a unique perspective because, I know Falun Gong. And I view this thread as an honest request for information / request for comment. I think my participation has been helpful. ( But I could be wrong... I could be very-very wrong )

Also, arguably what you are describing "lecturing" is not part of the RF mission because it does discourage a diverse community. Atheists and Agnostics, I imagine, come here hoping not to get preached at. And it wouldn't be good for those folks to be pushed away by people who come here and preach in spite of the rules and in spite of the mission of RF. It's a grey area in my opinion, quite honestly. Allowing one person to lecture is a bit of a slippery slope, especially if viewed through the lens of a moderation team trying to stay objective and enforce the rules fairly. ( But that doesn't mean I report it when I see it... I leave that to people who are **actually** bothered by these things )

If people want to 'lecture', wouldn't one easy way to do it without being reported for proselytising would be to post an AMA?

 

[dybmh]

If people want to 'lecture', wouldn't one easy way to do it without being reported for proselytising would be to post an AMA?

Brilliant.

 

[Vinayaka]

Brilliant.

Of course you have to answer the questions asked, and not go off on off-topic proselytising rants. Nor can you have fake questions from audience members like politicians at open forums do. But that stuff is easy to spot, as someone else alluded to.

 

[Trailblazer]

See what Sigurd and Heyo said in their posts # 8 and 9.

I do not see how these posts apply to what I said, but you have a right to your opinion. We all do.

 

[Mindmaster]

To tell the truth, is actually helping everybody if I saw someone do something wrong and was asked about I have two choices, to say it how i saw it unfold, or to keep silent and not say anything.

Then if I keep silent I have not hurt or ranted on the other person, but in the same time his karmic retribution would take place another time, and he would need to suffer no matter what since he has committed something wrong, Karma does not stop just because someone does not say anything.

So actually if i knew who it was and told when asked, both would gain from it, because the one who did wrong could explain why it happened, and I would not need to tell a lie to "save his ***"

Karma is a religious belief -- it cannot be proven, in fact... evidence contests the notion at every point. The worst people among us often have the best lives by any measurable standard.

Of course, there is always that possibility that the other person simply ends up hating your guts for either your apparent stupidity, ignorance, or outright malice. Generally, ideas like karma are for keeping the sheep in the pens -- the wolves are still hungry and don't give a damn about the fences. But, in this particular case the fences are just mental and imaginary... There are no rules unless you believe them...

 

[Aupmanyav]

Karma is a religious belief -- it cannot be proven, in fact... evidence contests the notion at every point. The worst people among us often have the best lives by any measurable standard.

Karma is a fact if you do not extend it to a next life. That is woo. What you sow is what you reap. In most cases that will be true. But some people will escape punishment for their wrong deeds. It s society and law which punishes these people and not any non-existent God or Allah - their luck. World goes by chance and probability. It was born out of chaos and not created by any God or Allah - speaking only the truth.

 

[Mindmaster]

Karma is a fact if you do not extend it to a next life. That is woo. What you sow is what you reap. In most cases that will be true. But some people will escape punishment for their wrong deeds. It s society and law which punishes these people and not any non-existent God or Allah - their luck. World goes by chance and probability. It was born out of chaos and not created by any God or Allah - speaking only the truth.

It's just an assortment of unknowable gobbled-y-gook. Anyway, that's my opinion of karma... besides that karma is so nebulous as a concept that you don't even know if your actions or non-actions would either contribute or penalize your "score". Likewise, I feel such a system cannot be valid because of this factor. You may be invested in "right actions" that are actually harmful to others without your knowledge. Accordingly, you'd still be "screwing up" if karma was a system you ascribed to whether you knew it or not. Your ignorance of the law doesn't excuse your actions in such a scenario, etc...

As far as law and order, well that's far from ideal either -- there are many folks wrongly prosecuted and worse. Anyway, it all sort of begs the question -- what created the creator etc. Probably OT for the rest of this thread, but the point remains valid. For every bearded or unknowable god, there is a question of where that god came from and why.

Chaos is an interesting theory and probably the more probable -- but, I'd say what is more likely is "ordered chaos"... that's to say things begin with a plan, but are able to have free action within their own mechanism. To some extent, there is no point to existence whatsoever and that's basically what all the religionists and mealy-mouthed philosophers are trying to solve with their banter. However, since we are literally atoms in size in comparison to the entire universe the truth of it may be beyond our purview for eternity. I'm fine with that and don't need to make **** up to fill the gap.

 

[james bond]

Human beings are known for twisting the truth to avoid unpleasant situations. But why should we twist the truth when it is the truth that will enlighten us?
We are all on a journey through life where one time or another we have told untruth, But how does that make us feel afterward? Is it not worth struggling to become 100% truthful even it hurts in the short run, but save us in the long run?

Is it not just an attachment that keeps us from speaking the truth? the attachment of feeling hurt when someone gets angry at us because we speak the truth.
If we look at it deeper, is it not the person who feels angry that is truly suffering and not us?

This is a good, deep topic. I agree on both of your sentences in the first paragraph. It explains why we do it and then why we shouldn't do it.

Usually, the truth hurts, so we may not mention it. Is that why somebody else may be angry with us? It could also mean that you have become angry at them. It could have been the truth about one self.