To speak only truth

[Spirit of Light]

Notice how the example above sets up a split between people who are on a higher level, and those that are at a lower level?

I think this idea can have many negative consequences for everyone involved. Perhaps read about "splitting" if you're not already familiar with it?

Splitting (psychology) - Wikipedia

I only speak from my experience from Falun Gong teaching, even I use my own words what I say is to be found within the teaching, For someone who has cultivated longer then I have will probably see a higher level of truth about the topic we discussing here.
When speaking of the level of understanding it has nothing to do with mundane understanding, it has to do with what level one has risen to within the cultivation, or should i say if one has got close to a form of enlightenment ( i am of course far from any high level at this moment, but i see things my way and express it) But do not mix my understanding of Falun Dafa teaching with the higher truth of falun gong teaching, because I do not see or understand it on a high enough level and the full truth at this moment.
Again: My words can not be seen as the teaching of Falun dafa. only a lower level of it.

 

[dybmh]

You are talking of Abrahamic religions. People are welcome to discuss thing thread-bare in Hinduism and Buddhism.

Respectfully: You are accurately describing the majority, but, I think you would be happy with the conversations and teaching that happen in the minority behind the scenes. The old paradigm is becoming less and less compelling to young people. It is a reason for hope.

 

[dybmh]

I only speak from my experience from Falun Gong teaching, even I use my own words what I say is to be found within the teaching, For someone who has cultivated longer then I have will probably see a higher level of truth about the topic we discussing here.
When speaking of the level of understanding it has nothing to do with mundane understanding, it has to do with what level one has risen to within the cultivation, or should i say if one has got close to a form of enlightenment ( i am of course far from any high level at this moment, but i see things my way and express it) But do not mix my understanding of Falun Dafa teaching with the higher truth of falun gong teaching, because I do not see or understand it on a high enough level and the full truth at this moment.
Again: My words can not be seen as the teaching of Falun dafa. only a lower level of it.

I hear you. And I don't want to discourage your own cultivation.

Because of that, I stand by what I said, and I trust you will make the right choices for you. Maybe for now just "think about it..."



Is it, challenging someone else's delusion, effective for self-cultivation?

 

[Spirit of Light]

I hear you. And I don't want to discourage your own cultivation.

Because of that, I stand by what I said, and I trust you will make the right choices for you. Maybe for now just "think about it..."

Is it challenging someone else's delusion effective for self-cultivation?

You are welcome to "challenge" me that is actually a way for me to work on my Xinxing(morality or virtue) And yes it also makes me have to study harder to give a good answer. But It gets a bit out of hand sometimes (not your fault) And I do not want Falun Gong to be misrepresented by me as a cultivator. and I want to use as much as the Falun Dafa teaching to give answers. But then I get in a situation where people say I proselyte, something we know should not be done in this forum.

I would also think it is a better way to learn when interested and that is to ask a question from the teaching, instead of attacking a practitioner who is not on the highest level and then, of course, will not see or understand the highest truth in the teaching yet. That is a process that take time and cultivation for years to come

 

[Vinayaka]

This 'truth' varies from person to person. A few years back, I personally changed it to 'speak whatever does the least harm' which, in my faith, is called dharma.

 

[Spirit of Light]

This 'truth' varies from person to person. A few years back, I personally changed it to 'speak whatever does the least harm' which, in my faith, is called dharma.

And yes I agree. when I say the level of understanding or level of wisdom I speak exactly about what you said here. Every human being are at different levels of understaning

 

[dybmh]

You are welcome to "challenge" me that is actually a way for me to work on my Xinxing(morality or virtue) And yes it also makes me have to study harder to give a good answer. But It gets a bit out of hand sometimes (not your fault) And I do not want Falun Gong to be misrepresented by me as a cultivator. and I want to use as much as the Falun Dafa teaching to give answers. But then I get in a situation where people say I proselyte, something we know should not be done in this forum.

I would also think it is a better way to learn when interested and that is to ask a question from the teaching, instead of attacking a practitioner who is not on the highest level and then, of course, will not see or understand the highest truth in the teaching yet. That is a process that take time and cultivation for years to come

it is proselytizing, i'm afraid. I cannot deny it, that would be dishonest.

When anyone chooses to become a megaphone for a religion, scripture, belief/non-belief system, or spiritual cultivation path without applying their own brain-power to it... that's what it is. It's preaching. It doesn't matter who is doing it.

The discussions you are wanting to have here on RF, for the sake of your own learning are valid. But, I think that a community of practitioners would serve you better with less restrictions. I am not asking you to leave RF, friend-Amanaki. I am just trying to ease your mind a little. And, more importantly, I want to encourage you, friend-Amanaki, to participate on RF freely. But that freedom is not without risk.

The potential harm to others is psychological splitting, and the potential harm to oneself is accidentally mis-quoting misrepresenting the the teachings of a Beloved Teacher. This harm can compound. But that is the risk of being here on RF participating as ourselves and not as a megaphone for someone else's words. And really, RF is not a place for people operating as empty shells whose only purpose is to amplify their chosen beliefs to the masses. That's not what this place is about.

So: these are the three things I am focusing on in this thread:

1) Be true to yourself
2) Be careful not to split people
3) Disillusioning people can be counter-productive, sometimes the lie/illusion is useful. Illusion is part of life.

 

[Spirit of Light]

it is proselytizing, i'm afraid. I cannot deny it, that would be dishonest.

When anyone chooses to become a megaphone for a religion, scripture, belief/non-belief system, or spiritual cultivation path without applying their own brain-power to it... that's what it is. It's preaching. It doesn't matter who is doing it.

The discussions you are wanting to have here on RF, for the sake of your own learning are valid. But, I think that a community of practitioners would serve you better with less restrictions. I am not asking you to leave RF, friend-Amanaki. I am just trying to ease your mind a little. And, more importantly, I want to encourage you, friend-Amanaki, to participate on RF freely. But that freedom is not without risk.

The potential harm to others is psychological splitting, and the potential harm to oneself is accidentally mis-quoting misrepresenting the the teachings of a Beloved Teacher. This harm can compound. But that is the risk of being here on RF participating as ourselves and not as a megaphone for someone else's words. And really, RF is not a place for people operating as empty shells whose only purpose is to amplify their chosen beliefs to the masses. That's not what this place is about.

If the moderators see my writing in this forum as proselyting then I will freely leave here with no regrets. I wanted to follow the rules of this forum, but when more than one person says they feel me proselyte, yes then it is time for me to move one.

If you can do me a favor @dybmh. Report my post to the mods for proselyting (i ask you to do so) then we will see if the mods are agreed my time in this forum is over. Because how i am now and what i write about (Falun Gong) is what i will be writing about in the future. and if it is not allowed in this forum, yes then i will take your advice and find a forum for only Falun Gong practitioners.

Just know this. I have no hard feelings toward anyone who discussed it with me. And I don't want to be a burden to others. so I am actually happy you said what you did @dybmh
Thank you

 

[Altfish]

Human beings are known for twisting the truth to avoid unpleasant situations. But why should we twist the truth when it is the truth that will enlighten us?
We are all on a journey through life where one time or another we have told untruth, But how does that make us feel afterward? Is it not worth struggling to become 100% truthful even it hurts in the short run, but save us in the long run?

Is it not just an attachment that keeps us from speaking the truth? the attachment of feeling hurt when someone gets angry at us because we speak the truth.
If we look at it deeper, is it not the person who feels angry that is truly suffering and not us?

There are times when the 'truth' is possibly not the best answer.

How often has a husband truthfully answered his wife's question, "Does my bum look big in this?"
Would you tell a dying child they are going to die soon?
Most religions lie to their flocks. There is no evidence of any god but they all say there is.

 

[Spirit of Light]

There are times when the 'truth' is possibly not the best answer.

How often has a husband truthfully answered his wife's question, "Does my bum look big in this?"
Would you tell a dying child they are going to die soon?
Most religions lie to their flocks. There is no evidence of any god but they all say there is.

What is the need of telling a lie to the wife? She asks, she will get an honest answer.
Would I tell a child who was sick and would die in a time that this is what happens, personally yes I would? And explain why it is so. (Kids do understand)
That you do not believe in religious teaching or another form of spiritual life, that is your rightfully view. But others may see it differently you know. We are all different people with different beliefs, or disbeliefs, and its ok

 

[Altfish]

What is the need of telling a lie to the wife? She asks, she will get an honest answer.
Would I tell a child who was sick and would die in a time that this is what happens, personally yes I would? And explain why it is so. (Kids do understand)
That you do not believe in religious teaching or another form of spiritual life, that is your rightfully view. But others may see it differently you know. We are all different people with different beliefs, or disbeliefs, and its ok

Are you married? Have you told your partner that they have a big bum?
If a child can go through life (or an adult) without knowledge of their impending death, it must be better for them
Religions can't all be correct, so most of them are lying, I go one further and believe hey are all lying.

 

[Spirit of Light]

Are you married? Have you told your partner that they have a big bum?
If a child can go through life (or an adult) without knowledge of their impending death, it must be better for them
Religions can't all be correct, so most of them are lying, I go one further and believe hey are all lying.

I am engaged, and yes i have told her if something made her bum look bigger in some clothes, then in other clothes. She finds that to be good about me, that i dare to be honest to her.
Kids have a right to know how their health is, and if they, unfortunately, have become so ill they will die from it, it is their right to know.

 

[Heyo]

In this example, the person sharing truth believes that they are are closer to truth than the audience. That is a bold claim, and if it's not accurate, that may be one reason why people react the way they do.

In order for this approach to be valid, one person is "above" the other person.

When a professor lectures his students (or a lay audience) there is a clear bias of knowledge.

 

[Altfish]

I am engaged, and yes i have told her if something made her bum look bigger in some clothes, then in other clothes. She finds that to be good about me, that i dare to be honest to her.
Kids have a right to know how their health is, and if they, unfortunately, have become so ill they will die from it, it is their right to know.

OK, you can get away with it.

 

[Heyo]

If the moderators see my writing in this forum as proselyting then I will freely leave here with no regrets. I wanted to follow the rules of this forum, but when more than one person says they feel me proselyte, yes then it is time for me to move one.

If you can do me a favor @dybmh. Report my post to the mods for proselyting (i ask you to do so) then we will see if the mods are agreed my time in this forum is over. Because how i am now and what i write about (Falun Gong) is what i will be writing about in the future. and if it is not allowed in this forum, yes then i will take your advice and find a forum for only Falun Gong practitioners.

Just know this. I have no hard feelings toward anyone who discussed it with me. And I don't want to be a burden to others. so I am actually happy you said what you did @dybmh
Thank you

There is a fine line between informing and proselytising. Imo you haven't crossed that line. (Yet?)

 

[dybmh]

If the moderators see my writing in this forum as proselyting then I will freely leave here with no regrets. I wanted to follow the rules of this forum,

The fundamental question is... **truly** what do you want. I would respectfully just ask you to be truthful to yourself:

Have you ever asked yourself, Amanaki? Do you want to preach your beliefs? If you do, you are not alone. There is nothing inherently wrong with the desire to preach/persuade people. But if that is put into action and applied here on RF: it does split people, and it does attempt to disillusion people who are not interested, in spite of being true to yourself.

1) Be true to yourself
2) Be careful not to split people
3) Disillusioning people can be counter-productive, sometimes the lie/illusion is useful. Illusion is part of life.

These are 3 characteristics when present together can accurately describe "preaching". However, here's something to think about... have you ever considered what's different between a "troll" and a "preacher"? Just 1 thing. It's number 1 on the list.

Both a preacher and troll split people. Obviously the preacher is trying to disillusion people; but, often the troll is also trying to disillusion people too. That's #2 and #3. That means, the only difference is this: A Preacher is true to themselves, and a Troll is a liar.

Here's a practical example:

If, for example, a person wants to preach on RF, and consistently claims that they don't, that is not being truthful. Potentially this illusion is well intended and useful. Potentially the person in this example has never really examined their own true motivations, and is therefore unaware and unable to be true to themselves. Again, it's a maybe. But the point is that this person, if their true motivation is to offer salvation and to preach it here on RF, but that true motivation is masked, or hidden somehow hidden... that's an illusion. And that is not speaking only truth.

Taken one step further, I am asking myself: Is that person in the above example starting to behave like a troll? My vote? just a tiny little bit... But they are not a troll, because the intention is potentially pure, and the dishonesty is unintended...

But, since the topic of this thread is "speaking only truth", then it makes sense to point this out:

Speaking truthfully and behaving consistently according to a person's inner version of truth ( being true to who you are )... that is the line between well intended preacher and a troll. And this whole concept of a preacher behaving like a troll ( but not becoming one ) can be applied in a whole host of ways to better understand the observations you made in the OP.

It's true, isn't it?

 

[Spirit of Light]

The fundamental question is... **truly** what do you want. I would respectfully just ask you to be truthful to yourself:

Have you ever asked yourself, Amanaki? Do you want to preach your beliefs? If you do, you are not alone. There is nothing inherently wrong with the desire to preach/persuade people. But if that is put into action and applied here on RF: it does split people, and it does attempt to disillusion people who are not interested, in spite of being true to yourself.



These are 3 characteristics when present together can accurately describe "preaching". However, here's something to think about... have you ever considered what's different between a "troll" and a "preacher"? Just 1 thing. It's number 1 on the list.

Both a preacher and troll split people. Obviously the preacher is trying to disillusion people; but, often the troll is also trying to disillusion people too. That's #2 and #3. That means, the only difference is this: A Preacher is true to themselves, and a Troll is a liar.

Here's a practical example:

If, for example, a person wants to preach on RF, and consistently claims that they don't, that is not being truthful. Potentially this illusion is well intended and useful. Potentially the person in this example has never really examined their own true motivations, and is therefore unaware and unable to be true to themselves. Again, it's a maybe. But the point is that this person, if their true motivation is to offer salvation and to preach it here on RF, but that true motivation is masked, or hidden somehow hidden... that's an illusion. And that is not speaking only truth.

Taken one step further, I am asking myself: Is that person in the above example starting to behave like a troll? My vote? just a tiny little bit... But they are not a troll, because the intention is potentially pure, and the dishonesty is unintended...

But, since the topic of this thread is "speaking only truth", then it makes sense to point this out:

Speaking truthfully and behaving consistently according to a person's inner version of truth ( being true to who you are )... that is the line between well intended preacher and a troll. And this whole concept of a preacher behaving like a troll ( but not becoming one ) can be applied in a whole host of ways to better understand the observations you made in the OP.

It's true, isn't it?

All i can answer is that one part of Falun Gong is to spread its teaching so as many can hear about it, but of course, never force or try to force someone to become a practitioner

 

[Aupmanyav]

If you can do me a favor @dybmh. Report my post to the mods for proselyting (i ask you to do so) then we will see if the mods are agreed my time in this forum is over.

What gave you that idea, Amanaki? We cannot even think of this (Dybmh included).

 

[dybmh]

When a professor lectures his students (or a lay audience) there is a clear bias of knowledge.

Yes. And it's appropriate, right? Because the student enrolled in the class?

 

[Aupmanyav]

Have you told your partner that they have a big bum?

Yeah, of course. Many a times. Anything wrong with that, happens with age. Difficult for the figure to remain the same at 40 or 60 as it was at 20.