To speak only truth

[stvdv]

IMHO: If you want to know the Truth, you better start "worshipping" the Truth

Worshipping is not a part of Falun Gong only purifying oneself from doing wrong deeds, wrong words or wrong thoughts.

Hence the quotes in "worshipping"

For me real "worship" means: Speak Truth, Follow Righteousness

 

[dybmh]

Truth does not mean preaching Truth means we speak as truthful as we can to our ability and knowledge of each situation, Suguagrcoating the situation does not work in the long run in my understanding
But truth also comes in different levels (in spiritual life anyway) Because the truth I see now is not the highest truth of a situation, but when cultivating to a more advanced level the truth will look different again.

An example can be if someone from earth was taken to one heaven, and saw a spiritual scripture in heaven, they would not recognize it even it was the same teaching, because the truth in heaven and the truth we understand on earth is very different (since the truth in heaven is closer to the very essence of truth (this is how i understand it)

In this example, the person sharing truth believes that they are are closer to truth than the audience. That is a bold claim, and if it's not accurate, that may be one reason why people react the way they do.

In order for this approach to be valid, one person is "above" the other person.

 

[Spirit of Light]

Hence the quotes in "worshipping"

For me real "worship" means: Speak Truth, Follow Righteousness

Then we agree with what worship could mean yes. and in Falun Gong, it is within Truthfulness, Compassion, forbearance

 

[Spirit of Light]

In this example, the person sharing truth believes that they are are closer to truth than the audience. That is a bold claim, and if it's not accurate, that may be one reason why people react the way they do.

In order for this approach to be valid, one person is "above" the other person.

When wisdom arises within someone who cultivates a true cultivation path, it would seem like they rise "above" others when it comes to wisdom or understanding of the human realm and spiritual realm function. But as you may be noticed when I speak I say "in my understanding" or if quoting something from the teaching I do say it is a quote and also say it is Master Li word.

But to say it like this. Cultivation toward enlightenment (the process to realization) will rise someone from being an ordinary person to become a spiritual being in the true sense. So no it is not a belief like in a religion where one often believes it is God who makes them understand more, it is actually oneself when removing attachments, and when to become more and more in line with the truth, that is when true wisdom arise. (in Falun Gong it also has to do with Gong energy, that is an indicator of what level one has come to within one own cultivation.
But that is not something we do need to say or focus on in daily life, it is just something that happens on its own when cultivating.

 

[dybmh]

The wording i used was because as an example " a group of people have seen someone in the group do wrong, and when the boss ask them who did it. none of them are going to say who the person is, nor is the person him/her self willing to say it because they are afraid of the consequence. But if the person was speaking the truth they would admit it was them, and the consequence would be less painful when it would be discovered who did it anyway later on.
Just think of the guilty thoughts, worries, agony the person would have because they would be worried they got busted later. in this case, truth is best from the beginning.

I agree that a person should be honest with themselves in principle, but in practice people need to lie to themselves. That's how I feel. It's just an opinion based on my own personal experiences. It's not based on any scripture, religion, or spiritual cultivation path.

 

[Spirit of Light]

I agree that a person should be honest with themselves in principle, but in practice people need to lie to themselves. That's how I feel. It's just an opinion based on my own personal experiences. It's not based on any scripture, religion, or spiritual cultivation path.

Then it is right for you in your situation to have your opinion and view, I am not going to try to take that away from you.

 

[Cooky]

Human beings are known for twisting the truth to avoid unpleasant situations. But why should we twist the truth when it is the truth that will enlighten us?
We are all on a journey through life where one time or another we have told untruth, But how does that make us feel afterward? Is it not worth struggling to become 100% truthful even it hurts in the short run, but save us in the long run?

Is it not just an attachment that keeps us from speaking the truth? the attachment of feeling hurt when someone gets angry at us because we speak the truth.
If we look at it deeper, is it not the person who feels angry that is truly suffering and not us?

I think it can be fun to tell non-truths...

For instance yesterday, at dinner, our family was discussing how little Jenna fell into the duck pond once when we were feeding the ducks bread. I started off by by telling her she was completely submerged underwater, and then she returned the conversation by saying that the fish all swam to her underwater and started staring at her -as if they were surprised to see her there... Then we all started laughing hysterically having envisioned the silliness of that in our minds.

...I LOL'd for a long time.

But she really did fall in the duck pond once.

 

[Revoltingest]

Human beings are known for twisting the truth to avoid unpleasant situations. But why should we twist the truth when it is the truth that will enlighten us?
We are all on a journey through life where one time or another we have told untruth, But how does that make us feel afterward? Is it not worth struggling to become 100% truthful even it hurts in the short run, but save us in the long run?

Is it not just an attachment that keeps us from speaking the truth? the attachment of feeling hurt when someone gets angry at us because we speak the truth.
If we look at it deeper, is it not the person who feels angry that is truly suffering and not us?

Two things are over-rated in human affairs....
1) Truth
2) Candor
The secret is to know when to apply each by how much.
More important is to seek kindness & honor....& gossip.

Evidence....

 

[SalixIncendium]

I think it can be fun to tell non-truths...

For instance yesterday, at dinner, our family was discussing how little Jenna fell into the duck pond once when we were feeding the ducks bread. I started off by by telling her she was completely submerged underwater, and then she returned the conversation by saying that the fish all swam to her underwater and started staring at her -as if they were surprised to see her there... Then we all started laughing hysterically having envisioned the silliness of that in our minds.

...I LOL'd for a long time.

I think there's a distinct difference between storytelling for entertainment purposes and intentionally telling not-truths with the intent to deceive from truth.

 

[Spirit of Light]

Two things are over-rated in human affairs....
1) Truth
2) Candor
The secret is to know when to apply each by how much.
More important is to seek kindness & honor....& gossip.

Why gossip? that's not gonna make you enlighten

 

[dybmh]

When wisdom arises within someone who cultivates a true cultivation path, it would seem like they rise "above" others when it comes to wisdom or understanding of the human realm and spiritual realm function. But as you may be noticed when I speak I say "in my understanding" or if quoting something from the teaching I do say it is a quote and also say it is Master Li word.

I have noticed, and when others do this ( like Baha'i ) I offer the same criticism: It's counter-productive and proselytizing. Even if the intention is to be humble, the effect on the the reader is the opposite.

But to say it like this. Cultivation toward enlightenment (the process to realization) will rise someone from being an ordinary person to become a spiritual being in the true sense. So no it is not a belief like in a religion where one often believes it is God who makes them understand more, it is actually oneself when removing attachments, and when to become more and more in line with the truth, that is when true wisdom arise. (in Falun Gong it also has to do with Gong energy, that is an indicator of what level one has come to within one own cultivation.
But that is not something we do need to say or focus on in daily life, it is just something that happens on its own when cultivating.

Yes, I know that is what Master Li teaches.

Have you learned Master Li's teaching about the predestined relationships between Falun Dafa cultivators? I think that this will be very helpful to understand my point of view on when not to interfere with someone else's version of truth.

 

[Revoltingest]

Why gossip? that's not gonna make you enlighten

But it'll entertain.
I'm after unlightenment.....not enlightenment.

 

[Spirit of Light]

I have noticed, and when others do this ( like Baha'i ) I offer the same criticism: It's counter-productive and proselytizing. Even if the intention is to be humble, the effect on the the reader is the opposite.

Yes, I know that is what Master Li teaches.

Have you learned Master Li's teaching about the predestined relationships between Falun Dafa cultivators? I think that this will be very helpful to understand my point of view on this?

Yes, I know of the part of Li Hongzhi`s teaching about the predestined relationship when it comes to falun gong practitioners. In my understanding, it means what I as a cultivator already have been set, and it has been meaning to why I on multiple accounts have come back to Falun Gong teaching during my years as a Buddhist. It is meant to be that I should cultivate Falun Gong, even I may have not been aware of that for a long time.
When a person becomes spiritual interested and wishes to become enlightened the heavenly realm enjoys in this and there are "systems behind the scene" that make it possible to cultivate.
But many predestine things get change when becoming a cultivator

I know it is possible to understand this topic even deeper then I do right now,

 

[Spirit of Light]

But it'll entertain.
I'm after unlightenment.....not enlightenment.

oh...

 

[Howard Is]

I'll keep this in mind when my friends asks me, "Do these pants make my butt look big?"

Especially if the butt is cute

 

[dybmh]

Truth does not mean preaching Truth means we speak as truthful as we can to our ability and knowledge of each situation, Suguagrcoating the situation does not work in the long run in my understanding
But truth also comes in different levels (in spiritual life anyway) Because the truth I see now is not the highest truth of a situation, but when cultivating to a more advanced level the truth will look different again.

An example can be if someone from earth was taken to one heaven, and saw a spiritual scripture in heaven, they would not recognize it even it was the same teaching, because the truth in heaven and the truth we understand on earth is very different (since the truth in heaven is closer to the very essence of truth (this is how i understand it)

Notice how the example above sets up a split between people who are on a higher level, and those that are at a lower level?

I think this idea can have many negative consequences for everyone involved. Perhaps read about "splitting" if you're not already familiar with it?

Splitting (psychology) - Wikipedia

 

[Polymath257]

I think there's a distinct difference between storytelling for entertainment purposes and intentionally telling not-truths with the intent to deceive from truth.

There is also the possibility of telling a story to convey a 'moral truth' or one that has a 'deeper meaning'. While not 'true' in a strict sense, and not for entertainment, they are told with a truth-directed intent.

 

[Polymath257]

One of the difficulties in always telling the truth is prefacing all statements with a disclaimer: 'In my experience' or 'in my opinion'.

So, saying 'I see a chair there' as opposed to 'there is a chair there'.

Never assume your perception is reality if you always want to speak the truth.

At least, that's my experience.

 

[dybmh]

Yes, I know of the part of Li Hongzhi`s teaching about the predestined relationship when it comes to falun gong practitioners. In my understanding, it means what I as a cultivator already have been set, and it has been meaning to why I on multiple accounts have come back to Falun Gong teaching during my years as a Buddhist. It is meant to be that I should cultivate Falun Gong, even I may have not been aware of that for a long time.
When a person becomes spiritual interested and wishes to become enlightened the heavenly realm enjoys in this and there are "systems behind the scene" that make it possible to cultivate.
But many predestine things get change when becoming a cultivator

I know it is possible to understand this topic even deeper then I do right now,

Yes. This concept and Master Li's words on this are not easy for me to recall... And I'm not 100% sure how to apply it. But this is how I feel.

It seems to me that Master Li teaches that he is the one to identify when, how, and whom is predestined for cultivating Falun Dafa. This relationship is predestined, and Master Li knows what to do and when to do it. Falun Dafa cultivators should focus on cultivating, not recruitment ( for lack of a better word ). Master Li identifies the cultivators and determines when these people are encouraged towards cultivation. This was the approach of the local Falun Dafa cultivators that befriended me. However, I am aware that other Falun Dafa cultivators do take up advocacy as part of their mission on earth. And as an outsider, I do not feel comfortable judging whether their mission is constructive or destructive. The best I can say is that from my perspective, it seems counter-productive, and I think Master Li would agree.

Going back to the idea of disillusionment and interfering with someone else's version of truth... Zooming out, on the macro scale, really what is happening is, the person who is deluding themselves is being encouraged towards cultivation of enlightenment in the form of shedding their delusion. And if I understand correctly, Master Li teaches that this cultivation occurs for people who are predestined for it. People who are not predestined for it remain deluded and remain in the cycle of rebirth according to the Fa. It's defined by the Fa, it's not personal. It's not good or bad, it just is. The application of this, for me, includes allowing people to remain attached to their illusions and recognizing the usefulness of these illusions. It's part of the Fa.

And that is why I think that Master Li would not encourage cultivators to interfere with other people's version of truth. It seems like Master Li does his own advocacy for cultivation and recruitment of cultivators based on the predestined relationship that he is able to recognize and identify. But, like i said, I don't have his own words on this subject specifically memorized.

 

[Aupmanyav]

To be truthful, it is not attachment of feeling hurt when someone gets angry that keeps me from speaking "what I believe" is the truth on this forum; it is fear of being banned for proselytizing.

See what Sigurd and Heyo said in their posts # 8 and 9.

I don’t idolise truth telling but I do value it very very highly

You do.

3) Religious banter that must be accepted unquestioningly. (Not exactly a truth, since one isn't allowed to investigate.)

You are talking of Abrahamic religions. People are welcome to discuss things thread-bare in Hinduism and Buddhism.

.. because the truth in heaven and the truth we understand on earth is very different (since the truth in heaven is closer to the very essence of truth (this is how i understand it)

?????

For me real "worship" means: Speak Truth, Follow Righteousness

You are referring to the Sanskrit adage "Satyam vada, dharmam chara".